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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Boycott JL and Waitrose? : James Esses' latest Substack on John Lewis LGBTQIA++ 'Identity' mag

289 replies

PersephoneSeethes · 15/02/2024 18:31

I saw it this afternoon on Twitter and read the article with utter horror.

I was hoping it would be uplifting stories about people being accepted and living full lives

John Lewis and Waitrose are seemingly actively promoting and policing
pronoun usage by colleagues, Stasi-style. This seems like it is a court case, a-la-Forstater, waiting to happen.

They have an article about 'raising non-binary and transgender children', not from an information position in case Partners come across such families in their stores, but with a heavy activist slant.

I think I have finally been pushed to the edge with this beloved company. I can no longer shop with them, and I shop at Waitrose every week for our main shop, have done for over a decade.

This is a real gut punch because I believe in what Waitrose does, or used to do: they pay their farmers better, their animal welfare is better, their shops don't have the bright lights and loud noises that set off my migraines and irritate family members autistic temperaments. But as someone who grew up a tomboy, and would have been thrown under the gender bus by Stonewall and all the other organisations if I had been a child today, I can't stand by and accept all this nonsense.

OP posts:
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OhBeAFineGuyKissMe · 18/02/2024 08:45

I know the magazine is called identity which is a big hint but was there anything in there for regular LGB and not Q?

For is it all the "look at ME" stuff? And mostly T?

JulesJules · 18/02/2024 08:03

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

JulesJules · 18/02/2024 07:30

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 18/02/2024 00:51

Boiledbeetle · 17/02/2024 18:17

https://twitter.com/CityBoy446BC/status/1758883070290104479?s=19

I'm down at John Lewis Oxford St. to see this 'exhibition' for myself. It's supposed to be open today, but as you see the event space is well & truly closed. Furthermore when I tried to peek behind the curtain security descended upon me and told me I couldn't. (1/2)

They also denied all knowledge of what was supposed to be on display.
Anyone besides me get the impression they're shitting bricks?
(2/2)

I'm having a bit of hard time understanding this entire saga.

Did the exhibition have the same content as I've seen shared online from the magazine? Like the gentleman who is into pup play?

Was the exhibit age-restricted at all? I think I found out about pup play and bondage gear at 17, and I consider that quite young enough. Could people have accidentally taken children into the exhibit, without realising what was inside?

ValerieDoonican · 17/02/2024 23:10

MrsOvertonsWindow · 15/02/2024 20:19

It's unbelievable that John Lewis has outsourced it's policies to a random group of staff with evidently no legal qualifications & no understanding of safeguarding children, child psychology and development. Despite this in the name of John Lewis they're lecturing staff with dangerous advice about parenting, lecturing women staff about the requirement for them to share changing rooms, toilets etc with men, doling out hazardous "advice" about the use of breast binders for children and a host of other matters.

The overreach of adherents to this ideology & John Lewis is extreme - and the casualties will be mainly children and women.

@MrsOvertonsWindow can I use a version of what you say here to write to JLP and tell them where to stick their "inclusivity "? You express exactly what I feel , and so eloquently !

AIstolemylunch · 17/02/2024 22:51

Just deleted my John Lewis account and told them why. I'm no prude buy I'm sick of male sexual fetishes being shoved down my throat and I don't need it when I'm thinking about what to buy for dinner and shopping for duvet covers and kitchen equipment for my son in halls.

Please don't let IKEA go woke or broke.

TrainedByCatsToBeScathing · 17/02/2024 20:24

Runningwildish · 17/02/2024 16:37

I have deleted the JL and Waitrose apps, but I'm having second thoughts about shopping in store, their animal welfare is the best there is with onsite abattoirs etc. and I'm sure that their pig farmers know what sex a hog and a sow are. So I think I'll still get my meat there .

Edited

I found online ethical butchers a few years ago. They aren't a cheap option but I prefer that they pay farmers fairly. I’ve been using the one that’s online butcher of the year but there are others. Quality is fantastic, better than Waitrose but needs more planning. I’ve been supplementing it with Waitrose but may just get back to being better organised.

FourChimneys · 17/02/2024 19:56

In the past I have spent between £50 and £100 at Waitrose on a Saturday. Today I shopped at Aldi and just went to Waitrose to use the toilet. To be fair they are cleaner than the public ones in town. To justify my visit I bought a solitary mushroom and paid with a £10 note.

Are there stickers we can decorate the toilet walls with?

I stopped going to JL when they started welcoming dogs in to piss and snuffle on their goods.

One of my neighbours is a typical middle aged Waitrose checkout woman. I must ask her what she thinks of the magazine. If it was paper rather than digital I expect she's using it to line her cat's litter tray.

dapsnotplimsolls · 17/02/2024 19:52

The response from Waitrose suggests it's all a bit competitive:

'We have an ambition to become the UK's most inclusive employer ...'

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/02/2024 19:52

asterel · 17/02/2024 18:54

It’s so predictable by now! Just like the girl guiding stuff and the NSPCC wank man and the Mermaids trustee who even they had to chuck out. One moment it’s all “platforming our trans staff”, and the next moment it surprisingly turns out that these people have open online histories full of perverted fetish stuff that goes well beyond the usual. Why don’t people do a bit of quick online checking before they go along all so credulously with this stuff?

And it’s ALWAYS THE MEN. Nonbinary handwringing they/them just sounds daft and silly. But whip person has seriously unpleasant fetish stuff online and harness man is clearly signalling that he is a “pup” (dog/leather fetish). I can cope with a bit of blue hair, but WTF are JL thinking with the “clearly signalling my fetish” stuff? Breast binders, Mermaids, kink and leather? They’re employing some fecking idiots if that think that’s OK for their brand positioning! Just like The Body Shop, their main market is middle aged (and pensioner), middle class people, largely with families, and even if not Conservative voting certainly socially pretty centrist/conservative with a small C.

And the iron rule of their kind of market is that even if men are providing some of the money, the women largely make the buying choices. Even when it’s electronics and big ticket items.

All this nonsense centred around men’s fetishes is disastrous for brands’ public image. But I can hardly feel sorry for JL given that this is hardly a new effect, and anyone with more than half a baby toe on the pulse of public opinion is backing away from the marketing catastrophe that is the alphabet queer trans train.

What a great post Flowers

PronounssheRa · 17/02/2024 19:45

There's an obvious due diligence issue here with JL platforming some partners with interesting social media. I think we have all seen more of Ruby than any of us actually wanted

The other side to this is the lack of care for some of the more vulnerable partners for who 'bringing your whole self to work' is now all over the Internet

The whole thing is a mess.

FrancescaContini · 17/02/2024 19:39

Boiledbeetle · 17/02/2024 00:56

😶 oops forgot to write something!

Is the whole magazine just more of this?👇

Edited

Nursery adviser? 😵‍💫

Chersfrozenface · 17/02/2024 19:12

Theeyeballsinthesky · 17/02/2024 18:03

Fucking hell @Boiledbeetle 😳😳😳

did no one in JL stop to check people’s social media first?? What were they thinking!

A tip for all organisations.

Before you let your alphabet network loose anywhere in the public's view, which is pretty much everywhere these days, check what the TQ++ always and inevitably includes.

Villagetoraiseachild · 17/02/2024 18:54

Looks like a classic Waitrose reduction!

asterel · 17/02/2024 18:54

Theeyeballsinthesky · 17/02/2024 18:03

Fucking hell @Boiledbeetle 😳😳😳

did no one in JL stop to check people’s social media first?? What were they thinking!

It’s so predictable by now! Just like the girl guiding stuff and the NSPCC wank man and the Mermaids trustee who even they had to chuck out. One moment it’s all “platforming our trans staff”, and the next moment it surprisingly turns out that these people have open online histories full of perverted fetish stuff that goes well beyond the usual. Why don’t people do a bit of quick online checking before they go along all so credulously with this stuff?

And it’s ALWAYS THE MEN. Nonbinary handwringing they/them just sounds daft and silly. But whip person has seriously unpleasant fetish stuff online and harness man is clearly signalling that he is a “pup” (dog/leather fetish). I can cope with a bit of blue hair, but WTF are JL thinking with the “clearly signalling my fetish” stuff? Breast binders, Mermaids, kink and leather? They’re employing some fecking idiots if that think that’s OK for their brand positioning! Just like The Body Shop, their main market is middle aged (and pensioner), middle class people, largely with families, and even if not Conservative voting certainly socially pretty centrist/conservative with a small C.

And the iron rule of their kind of market is that even if men are providing some of the money, the women largely make the buying choices. Even when it’s electronics and big ticket items.

All this nonsense centred around men’s fetishes is disastrous for brands’ public image. But I can hardly feel sorry for JL given that this is hardly a new effect, and anyone with more than half a baby toe on the pulse of public opinion is backing away from the marketing catastrophe that is the alphabet queer trans train.

Boiledbeetle · 17/02/2024 18:45

SoupDragonsFriend · 17/02/2024 18:39

Oh well. 😁 I rather like her tagline My pronouns are bull/she/it. And so are yours.

Edited

Talking of pronouns

(I have no idea who produced this wonderful photo!)

Boycott JL and Waitrose? : James Esses' latest Substack on John Lewis LGBTQIA++ 'Identity' mag
SoupDragonsFriend · 17/02/2024 18:39

Oh well. 😁 I rather like her tagline My pronouns are bull/she/it. And so are yours.

Boiledbeetle · 17/02/2024 18:32

SoupDragonsFriend · 17/02/2024 18:27

James Esses might welcome that photo and info! (I'm assuming you and he are not the same person 😀)

Edited

😁

It's not my tweet,

I don't know if City Boy is the same person as James, I suspect not!

SoupDragonsFriend · 17/02/2024 18:27

Boiledbeetle · 17/02/2024 18:17

https://twitter.com/CityBoy446BC/status/1758883070290104479?s=19

I'm down at John Lewis Oxford St. to see this 'exhibition' for myself. It's supposed to be open today, but as you see the event space is well & truly closed. Furthermore when I tried to peek behind the curtain security descended upon me and told me I couldn't. (1/2)

They also denied all knowledge of what was supposed to be on display.
Anyone besides me get the impression they're shitting bricks?
(2/2)

James Esses might welcome that photo and info! (I'm assuming you and he are not the same person 😀)

MmePoppySeedDefage · 17/02/2024 18:25

We always used to shop online from Sainsburys but in lockdown could only get Waitrose deliveries, and have stuck with them up to now out of gratitude. But no more.

And I won't be going into any JLP shops again either. When I think of the money we've spent there over the years...

I had cut down already and no longer shopped for clothes in person because of the changing room issue, but this is the final straw.

Boiledbeetle · 17/02/2024 18:22

https://twitter.com/OldRoberts953/status/1758810117313585245?s=19

Just popping down Waitrose, anybody want anything?

Boycott JL and Waitrose? : James Esses' latest Substack on John Lewis LGBTQIA++ 'Identity' mag
MagpiePi · 17/02/2024 18:21

CrossPurposes · 17/02/2024 15:34

I'm not expecting an answer that makes sense but how can one be trans and non-binary?

Is it so you get to wave armfuls of different flags, or does it show that you are more speshul than those who are only trans or only non-binary? Or can you start to trans and decide you have gone far enough? Or can you just take a breather before pushing on to complete your 'trans journey' all the way to some mythical end point? Maybe it's so you can have blue AND green hair? Who knows?

Boiledbeetle · 17/02/2024 18:17

https://twitter.com/CityBoy446BC/status/1758883070290104479?s=19

I'm down at John Lewis Oxford St. to see this 'exhibition' for myself. It's supposed to be open today, but as you see the event space is well & truly closed. Furthermore when I tried to peek behind the curtain security descended upon me and told me I couldn't. (1/2)

They also denied all knowledge of what was supposed to be on display.
Anyone besides me get the impression they're shitting bricks?
(2/2)

Boycott JL and Waitrose? : James Esses' latest Substack on John Lewis LGBTQIA++ 'Identity' mag
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