Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Teacher Warren Smith’s deconstruction of accusations towards J K Rowling

34 replies

Dervel · 12/02/2024 01:48

In case anyone has not seen this I thought you guys might find this worth a watch.

When a STUDENT asks about JK ROWLING this happens

#jkrowling #debate You will see the transformation / epiphany occur in real time. A critical thinking exercise with students about not what to think, but how...

https://youtu.be/zIPPpsJY39c?si=7dGOV6-C8630vyQr

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Pudmyboy · 17/05/2024 19:28

My god, what a nightmare, poor bloke! Hope he is able to challenge this in some way, he looks shattered right now though, unsurprisingly

Delphinium20 · 17/05/2024 16:36

JFC...

It's easy for my middle-aged corporate trained self to point out that you shouldn't house personal stuff on your work computer, but he lost a book he was writing and he's right to be worried about his financials...he's young, so lesson learned on that topic.

But he's absolutely right to be angry about the loss of his job because, well, sounds like he defended a witch. Off with his head!

HBGKC · 12/02/2024 18:31

"Critical thinking skills requires data to inform it.
If JKRowling hadn't put her view across, that conversation with the student could never have happened."

This is where I think I diverge from your reading of this video, @Joleyne.

(Obviously if JKR hadn't tweeted what she did, it would not be possible to analyse the tweet).

But critical thinking requires logic, not data. He was helping that student to analyse and appraise IF what JKR had actually said was in fact transphobic, rather than simply agreeing with it. His logical thought process did not rely on anyone else's thoughts/data, and could be applied to anyone's statement on any subject. I'm just happy the student chose to bring up this one - more sunlight!

HBGKC · 12/02/2024 18:27

Yes, he did. If only more teachers were teaching their students HOW to think rather than WHAT to think.

Prizefighter · 12/02/2024 17:03

His job as a teacher is to improve critical thinking not to promote gender critical ideology.

So he did really well at that. He did his job.

SpanishandGreek · 12/02/2024 17:03

It can seem tedious to any of us who have been schooled by our parents, friends, culture, education system to think things through and question our own and others assumptions. Unfortunately there is a lot of this lacking around the Western world at the moment, especially with the nature of short soundbites on social media - people seem to have outsourced their thinking.

Tedious to many, but revelatory to those who haven't ever been challenged to methodically think through their assumptions and biases.

I am sure that many of us came to critique Gender Ideology because we thought "I am missing something? This seems nonsensical" and after doing research and hearing both sides came to the conclusion "apparently I was right all along, it's based on absolutely nothing except wishful thinking". But we did take the time to analyze our thought process, because there was a default position that was very popular and being promoted far and wide.

Joleyne · 12/02/2024 16:59

HBGKC · 12/02/2024 13:43

"It's a great pity that it needed a male teacher to do that, rather than all the work those hundreds of women have put in. I'm not belittling it.
It was their work that enabled the teacher to form his own opinion, after all."

I'm curious about that last sentence, @Joleyne; what makes you think that this teacher's opinion was enabled by women's work rather than his own critical thinking skills?

If they hadn't voiced their views across all these years, it's quite likely they would never have been heard. Critical thinking skills requires data to inform it.
If JKRowling hadn't put her view across, that conversation with the student could never have happened.

HBGKC · 12/02/2024 13:43

"It's a great pity that it needed a male teacher to do that, rather than all the work those hundreds of women have put in. I'm not belittling it.
It was their work that enabled the teacher to form his own opinion, after all."

I'm curious about that last sentence, @Joleyne; what makes you think that this teacher's opinion was enabled by women's work rather than his own critical thinking skills?

AncientBallerina · 12/02/2024 13:16

its not only young people who are not thinking critically about this though. I know people in their 40s 50s and 60s who are so desperate to be seen not to be ‘right wing’ that they will absolutely refuse to think about it. Or refute any counter argument with emotional arguments - ‘vulnerable ‘ ‘be kind’ etc and when you really push it with them, get tetchy and start with the ‘ aligned with the far right’ bullshit.
If they are in the liberal// left wing tribe they have to believe everything that the tribe believes in. I don’t know what they are so scared of. Why is it not ok to ask questions? I think because the whole premise is so preposterous they can’t even begin to look behind the curtain and admit they have fallen for it. Or in some cases th damage they have caused.
Its astonishing to watch from the sidelines. Very disappointing when these are so called educated people.
ps I am centre left myself although politically pretty homeless at the moment

Dervel · 12/02/2024 12:31

I think broadly speaking he has been supported, but with the following restrictions:

  1. He’s not allowed to disclose the institution that he works at.
  2. Students cannot participate in his YouTube content.
  3. He can’t film at the institution.
OP posts:
nothingcomestonothing · 12/02/2024 12:04

the guy has already been hauled in front of his institutions leadership, but luckily they are standing by him with some caveats.

I didn't know that, what happened?

Dervel · 12/02/2024 12:03

I think we all lack the ability to apply critical thinking skills from time to time. Myself included, but nevertheless it’s vital that we at least know how to do it.

OP posts:
Joleyne · 12/02/2024 12:00

Cancelledcurio · 12/02/2024 02:19

Yeah he did good but not any more than hunners of women ( including JK herself) and the odd fella has said before. Maybe cos he's cool, young and a bit trendy. Still, doing the good work.

He challenged the student's thinking in a way that completely changed his mind and even got him to admit he felt an idiot.

It's a great pity that it needed a male teacher to do that, rather than all the work those hundreds of women have put in. I'm not belittling it.
It was their work that enabled the teacher to form his own opinion, after all.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 12/02/2024 11:31

Sorry but that's very tedious.

It's one student who doesn't appear able to construct any kind of argument being talked at by a teacher.

The point of it is not to be entertaining. Yes of course it's tedious to have to painstakingly take someone through a process of recognising that they have no critical thinking skills so that they realise their assumptions are bullshit. Unfortunately, a lot of people could do with that approach.

Dervel · 12/02/2024 11:20

EarringsandLipstick · 12/02/2024 02:25

Sorry but that's very tedious.

It's one student who doesn't appear able to construct any kind of argument being talked at by a teacher.

(Not disagreeing of course but not convinced it's a great example of tackling how JK Rowling has been attacked.)

I see what you mean. However the process of critical thinking and deconstructing /constructing ideas is rarely all that scintillating. That usually comes later once you have the thought fully fleshed out and understood by which time you can apply rhetoric to make it snappy and presentable.

I mainly presented this as it’s gone viral, and the guy has already been hauled in front of his institutions leadership, but luckily they are standing by him with some caveats.

It’s a sad state of affairs where simply teaching critical thought and how to do it has become objectionable. These are scary times indeed.

OP posts:
Rightsraptor · 12/02/2024 11:04

There is indeed a reward of £1 million for anyone who can prove JKR has said anything transphobic. Initially I had thought it could be won due to the extremely stretchy and ever-expanding definitions given to that word.

But - still not claimed.

I don't understand how you can say it's tedious, @EarringsandLipstick, in a short space of time the teacher talks through the student's perceptions and gets him to see he's wrong. How many other kids were in that class and listening? How many of them then reassessed their thoughts processes?

It seems to me a potentially huge benefit was gained from minimal input. And if students can't sit through that and have it hold their attention, then I fear everything I have heard about young people having the attention span of a goldfish must be true.

porridgecake · 12/02/2024 10:21

NoBinturongsHereMate · 12/02/2024 10:15

I have asked him to show me a single first-hand instance of JKR being transphobic. He can't/doesn't want to.

You could.remind him that there's a £1 million prize on offer for anyone who can do this.

Is there really a reward offered?

NoBinturongsHereMate · 12/02/2024 10:15

I have asked him to show me a single first-hand instance of JKR being transphobic. He can't/doesn't want to.

You could.remind him that there's a £1 million prize on offer for anyone who can do this.

AmaryllisChorus · 12/02/2024 07:02

porridgecake · 12/02/2024 06:15

My youngest DC is 26. I have become aware of a noticeable lack of ability to think critically in that age group. DC is considered to be bright, all A stars etc, but there is a blind spot with many in this age group when it comes to the trans culture/inclusivity/be kind. It is perplexing and it is a subject that I have to be very careful about mentioning.

I totally agree. I have a DS who excels at critical thinking but not where certain trans issues are concerned. I have asked him to show me a single first-hand instance of JKR being transphobic. He can't/doesn't want to. He just wants to hate her for what he's heard she thinks.

AmaryllisChorus · 12/02/2024 07:00

EarringsandLipstick · 12/02/2024 02:25

Sorry but that's very tedious.

It's one student who doesn't appear able to construct any kind of argument being talked at by a teacher.

(Not disagreeing of course but not convinced it's a great example of tackling how JK Rowling has been attacked.)

How is he being talked at by a teacher? The teacher is encouraging a not very bright pupil towards critical independent thinking. He's guiding, not talking at.

AmaryllisChorus · 12/02/2024 06:20

I think I love him.

Swipe left for the next trending thread