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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Alice Roberts in The Times

168 replies

Igneococcus · 10/02/2024 07:05

Mostly plugging her new book but the interviews bring up the trans issue:

"I am not trying to propel Roberts back to a 2019 skirmish in the trans wars in which she tweeted that “biology is, quite simply, messier and more wonderful than some people like to believe” and advised doubters to “ask a clownfish” — a clownfish being a fish that starts life as male but becomes female. It does, however, strike me that if human female and male brains are the same, how can it ever be said that a baby possessing male genitalia was born into the wrong body.
There is quite a pause.
“I think that’s a very difficult philosophical question. It’s very difficult to pin it down, isn’t it? And we’ve had decades of feminism where we’ve been trying to get away from women being reduced to their genitalia. My own feeling is that you approach everybody as an individual.”

No Alice, it really isn't difficult to pin down, and it's not about genitalia, it's about gametes.

On a side note, it seems if it weren't for Alice we'd still be clueless about the causative agent of plague:
"Her chapter on the Black Death of the 14th and 15th centuries reveals its genesis as the Yersinia pestis bacterium,"

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/31f84383-e923-42d5-8011-64d0dd7c1ff9?shareToken=2d6448182015ccd30701f4cb6c84de9f

Alice Roberts: ‘I’ve been estranged from my family for years’

The country’s most famous archaeologist talks to Andrew Billen about her new book, a near-death experience, family rifts — and the power of pink hair

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/31f84383-e923-42d5-8011-64d0dd7c1ff9?shareToken=2d6448182015ccd30701f4cb6c84de9f

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Pleasantsort · 09/09/2025 09:36

HoneyButterPopcorn · 10/02/2024 09:11

I avoid her now and the goth historian. Shame because I do enjoy a good dig programme. Lucy Worsley is off my Christmas card list too.

thank god for Mary beard (please god she doesn’t out herself as an idiot)

Och naw , what's Lucy's said ? Thought she was sensible.

Cailleach1 · 09/09/2025 09:35

That makes it worse, really, doesn’t it? You know it has a detrimental impact on the rights, opportunity and very safety of women and girls. Yet you do a quisling statement.

Pleasantsort · 09/09/2025 09:35

She's a privileged arse, isn't she ?(I fully expext this post to be removed btw).

Cailleach1 · 09/09/2025 09:30

Lottapianos · 10/02/2024 09:19

'No Alice, it really isn't difficult to pin down, and it's not about genitalia, it's about gametes.'

And she knows that perfectly well. Another smart person pretending to be stupid for trendy points. Not a good look

Yes, but you might have more than a good inkling that she is boxing clever over this stuff. Just like the NHSF personnel (some doctors no less) who waffled on about sex being so complicated. Mosaicism (I think caused by some cells from the donor) when receiving transplant etc. Then under questioning from SP’s side, admitted that doesn’t at all change you sex. So, they had been talking pure sh&te!

Some said they didn’t know what sex they were because they didn’t know what their chromosomes they had. Hmm.

PollyNomial · 09/09/2025 09:22

However, I don't know why anybody would pay much attention to a TV presenter's views on contentious social issues. What next, Ant and Dec asked to advise on immigration? Claudia Winkelman on knife crime? The cult of celebrity has a lot to answer for.

To be fair, all sides of this debate seem to obsess about the pronouncements of an author of highly successful and enjoyable fiction, so this behaviour isn't entirely without precedent.

MarieDeGournay · 09/09/2025 09:04

Lottapianos · 10/02/2024 09:19

'No Alice, it really isn't difficult to pin down, and it's not about genitalia, it's about gametes.'

And she knows that perfectly well. Another smart person pretending to be stupid for trendy points. Not a good look

Another smart person pretending to be stupid for trendy points.

Well done, you've just summed up a puzzling and damaging social phenomenon in 10 words, Lottapianos!
It's stored away in my brain to be used next time some eejity celeb says something eejity about genderGrin

CharlesChickens · 09/09/2025 08:56

RebelliousCow · 10/02/2024 15:09

My point was that she couldn't just leave Christians to their religious festival, she had to tweet rubbishing it. That does not show much tolerance, or live and let live. It shows a determination to be oppositional.

Yes, it was incredibly unpleasant , and I also very much doubt that she would have done the same to any other religious group.
She used to get reasonable replies on Twitter, calm, rational argument from other women, but she would tweet that she was being bullied and would flounce off . She is oddly unintelligent in her argument for someone so well educated. I think she may be one of those people who is good at exams, good at remembering large amounts of information and repeating it, but not a flexible or truly intelligent thinker.

JustAnotherFunday · 09/09/2025 08:41

ErrolTheDragon · 09/09/2025 08:38

Zombie thread, I don’t think she’s said anything of note recently?

You're right Errol but at least I've got the clownfish song stuck in my head. Right, work...

ErrolTheDragon · 09/09/2025 08:38

Zombie thread, I don’t think she’s said anything of note recently?

JustAnotherFunday · 09/09/2025 08:36

Oh that is why the clownfish came from! Oh dear...

Hummingbirdtree · 09/09/2025 08:35

Clafoutie · 10/02/2024 12:00

Wow, some of the vitriol on here.
Why is it no longer possible to disagree -vehemently- even violently- with another person’s viewpoint, without deriding and denigrating, and refusing to ever read a word written by that person ever again ( even someone you used to enjoy)?

That’s the world these days it seems. Alice was brought up in a very oppressive religious household. I can understand why she’s wary of religion. If you read her interviews about her mother , I can see why she felt she could t see her anymore.

I don’t agree with her views on biological sex,
but I can still admire her work and programmes.

knobend · 09/09/2025 08:22

I think she is bloody amazing so intelligent I thought she might have aspergers or some-it..I'm a dislexic athiest with a chainsaw addiction.I only watch her becasue the wife does and I have an old mans crush on her, one question did the vikings know about the chinese and what did they wipe their arses with.

DriftingDora · 11/02/2024 13:20

YetAnotherSpartacus · 10/02/2024 07:25

Most famous archaeologist???

My fat menopausal arse.

I think this honour should go to the late Mick Aston, or, if not to Phil Harding, Carenza Lewis or Helen Geake.

Or potentially to someone who is not a media personality but who gets on with the job.

YetAnotherSpartacus

I think this honour should go to the late Mick Aston, or, if not to Phil Harding, Carenza Lewis or Helen Geake.

It should definitely go to Mick Aston! He made the subject come alive, and is much missed.

SabrinaThwaite · 11/02/2024 13:15

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 11/02/2024 11:26

She isn't an archaeologist, so why she should be the poster girl for archaeology beats me

Now be fair, she does pick up a trowel and do a bit of scraping on Digging for Britain.

TBF a PhD in palaeopathology does kind of qualify you as an archaeologist of sorts - it’s part of the archaeobiology subdivision.

But I’d still think of people like Mick Aston as an archaeologist, rather than someone with a very specialised set of skills like Roberts.

DuesToTheDirt · 11/02/2024 11:57

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 11/02/2024 11:26

She isn't an archaeologist, so why she should be the poster girl for archaeology beats me

Now be fair, she does pick up a trowel and do a bit of scraping on Digging for Britain.

I went to a talk of hers a few years ago, about her life and career. It all started when she joined her archaeologist boyfriend on digs, then she was on Time Team, and it grew from there.

As for who becomes "poster girl", it's a wide range of things, isn't it?

I'm a fan, by the way, and hoping for her to get past the gender stuff!

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 11/02/2024 11:26

She isn't an archaeologist, so why she should be the poster girl for archaeology beats me

Now be fair, she does pick up a trowel and do a bit of scraping on Digging for Britain.

SinnerBoy · 11/02/2024 07:44

Yes, it's rubbish, I agree. It's fair enough if they have a new discovery, or a novel interpretation, but that should be explicit.

Solrock · 10/02/2024 23:11

SinnerBoy · 10/02/2024 19:53

There is a trend in modern history writing for authors to “discover” details about the past which have been well-known and discussed for decades (or, with Yersinia Pestis, for over a century) and then write well-publicised books explaining their discoveries to the world. I know that this is partly the fault of publishers and publicists, but I wish they would stop…

PrimalLass · 10/02/2024 23:08

Clafoutie · 10/02/2024 12:00

Wow, some of the vitriol on here.
Why is it no longer possible to disagree -vehemently- even violently- with another person’s viewpoint, without deriding and denigrating, and refusing to ever read a word written by that person ever again ( even someone you used to enjoy)?

Because once someone is so obviously wrong about something - and blocks you on Twitter - it's pretty hard to care what else they say!

literalviolence · 10/02/2024 23:00

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 10/02/2024 22:39

She says they had no choice because there were no state-funded schools able to offer places except the church school(s). Do you know differently?

We were fortunate to be able to avoid that dilemma in London, but she lives in a rural area where I can well believe there is effectively very little choice. OK, they could have moved or paid school fees to avoid the church school, but that's extreme.

Absolute bullshit. Ideas adamant that my kids would not go to a religious school and hence we did not buy in an area where they would have been necessary. She's not stupid. They could have chosen to live elsewhere if it mattered as much to her as she says..

Potatodreams · 10/02/2024 22:54

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 10/02/2024 22:39

She says they had no choice because there were no state-funded schools able to offer places except the church school(s). Do you know differently?

We were fortunate to be able to avoid that dilemma in London, but she lives in a rural area where I can well believe there is effectively very little choice. OK, they could have moved or paid school fees to avoid the church school, but that's extreme.

I do know the area and there is a nearby non church school but I don’t know where she lived or what the catchments were like when hers were at primary. Both schools were popular but one was considered more arty/alternative and one more academic (the church school).

And of course if she felt that strongly she could have definitely got a place somewhere in the city that wasn’t religious.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 10/02/2024 22:39

She says they had no choice because there were no state-funded schools able to offer places except the church school(s). Do you know differently?

We were fortunate to be able to avoid that dilemma in London, but she lives in a rural area where I can well believe there is effectively very little choice. OK, they could have moved or paid school fees to avoid the church school, but that's extreme.

Potatodreams · 10/02/2024 22:31

She sent her children to a church school despite being so against religion which is an extremely odd choice (except it isn’t because middle class parents will always push principles to the kerb when it come to getting into the best schools).

Pudmyboy · 10/02/2024 22:18

I bet AR wouldn't lean too far out of an upstairs window no matter how imperfect our understanding of gravity is. Brilliant@Igneococcus!😂

literalviolence · 10/02/2024 20:20

DeanElderberry · 10/02/2024 20:15

Yeah, but there are some who identify as archaeologists and corner you so you they can tell you their theories about Sumerians or how monuments align with each other or tunnels . . . .

Yes it is complicated to know who's an archaeologist. Hence we should accept self identification and effectively abolish any meaning of the statement 'I'm an archeaologist'.