What's going on with Genspect?

Maybe for some women the act of stating publicly they’re fine with non-AGP men wearing women’s clothing is just that and maybe for some it isn’t so much an enthusiastic support for the behaviour it’s more an attempt to show their liberal attitudes in order to forestall criticism that they conservative and old-fashioned/sexist.

And maybe some women really are fine with non-AGP (or even AGP) men wearing women’s clothes in any situation. But as previous posters have said, give boundary-crossing men an inch and they will take a mile, so society/ feminism needs to address the issue with this new perspective/male behaviour in mind. No homogenous approach will result because feminism isn’t one homogenous school of thought. But good faith discussions are interesting and help to develop/refine arguments, even on a personal level.

Organisations like Genspect need to address the issue urgently, so hopefully the YouTube discussion this evening will be a basis for beginning that conversation.

Hardly anyone in the UK wears african dress

Other matters aside, except for a relevant population, and in specific contexts, it might be seen as an act of cultural appropriation.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/10/26/658924715/when-is-it-ok-to-wear-the-clothing-of-another-culture

'Upkilting' is indeed a thing.

I think it's clear that we should be suspicious of all men who wear opposite sex clothing, and quite frankly I do wonder if a lot of the men who wear kilts may actually be AGP and use it as an excuse to wear a skirt.

I agree.

I cant see how they can be advocates for families with gender distressed children and support any adult sexual behaviour in public. Or suggest that distressed children are in anyway part of those groups of men.

We know groups want 'trans' to be large umbrella term, but thats does not benefit children and their families.

No, fetishistic cross-dressing is a particularly male behaviour.

You talk as if there are other men dressed in women's clothes where they are not transgressing other people's boundaries? Do you think that?
Who might be an example?

I have no idea. Perhaps there are lots of men who would love to wear dresses but don't want to look like perverts. Perhaps the AGPs have spoilt it all for them. That's sad, I'll add it to the long list of things it's not women's job to sort out.

You appear to be interested in theories surrounding society formation and the resulting effects on women; I linked to this book on feminist politics a few pages ago - you might find it interesting. It describes the various schools of feminist thought and theory - all of them have differing interpretations of how current cultures are the way they are and why there are disadvantages for women (and men) from these.

https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9781315003221/feminist-thought-rosemarie-tong

Just realised my start to this post makes me sound like Clippy 😁

His paraphilia is transgressing gender norms in clothing and perfroming it in front of others. It gives him a thrill, that's how he is transgressing the boundaries.

Its a man performing very male traits - transgressing boundaries and forcing others to partake in his paraphila. Those arent typically womens traits.

AGP, or whatever we want to call it, isnt gender non conforming at all.

It's not about 'a conference', 'a ballgown', 'a man', with or without AGP, it's about Genspect, what they think they are about and whether they can lump everyone together in a 'Big Tent', including paraphilic men who trample the sexual boundaries of others, and still safeguard the vulnerable groups they seek to serve.

There is nothing gender non-conforming about a bloke having a paraphilia or prioritising his own sexual wants over the needs and welfare of others. Men like this are not transgressing gender roles. The only thing they are transgressing is the boundaries of other people.

The issue is that genspect know this, everyone knows this because he makes no secret of it. Nobody has to guess why this man is wearing a dress because he's written a book about it.

Yet genspect and many others in the 'gender critical movement' are acting surprised and outraged that any of us have a problem with their championing of this man.

We're not stupid, Genspect! Don't piss on our leg and tell us it's raining.

This is spot on:

I'd suggest that they should be on the lookout for those that are trying to infiltrate their new methodology yes, as we know that activists are known to want to get in at the start to sway the agenda their way. This should not be news to Stella.

They got played, big time, by a hulking great AGP.

I object to Genspect having his book on their website and giving him a ticket.

But that is their choice to make, I can choose to now think they are captured if they fail to see the issues here.

I'd suggest that they should be on the lookout for those that are trying to infiltrate their new methodology yes, as we know that activists are known to want to get in at the start to sway the agenda their way. This should not be news to Stella.

They got played, big time, by a hulking great AGP.

And in just over an hour we will be able to hear from Stella about her current thinking on this.

P.s...a woman wearing a blue ballgown to a conference will be looked at strangely yes. A man wearing one, brings the added risk factors as they are transgressing multiple boundaries. So yes, I would expect him to be asked to dress more appropriately if he wants to stay.

This may seem logical, except it doesn’t stop the men who got aroused by wearing a dress, they now needed to do the next thing, something more incursive/harmful to women. By maintaining the barrier at clothing meant that it took a relatively small transgression.

OK, I think I may have misunderstood what you were trying to say.

I do find it very odd that you don't think there is any reason for a persistent differentitaion of clothing of the sexes across time and culture. Just an amzing fasion coincidence?

Just to be totally clear. I don't think this, and I haven't said this.

I thought you were saying that individual people chose to signal their sex. I think from this post you are saying that it is society which makes this decision by dictating what is deemed to be appropriate clothing for each sex. This is obviously true in most societies (I say most because I am not ruling out the possibility that either now or at some point in history, somewhere in the world, this isn't/wasn't true).

Of course styles and modes differ across time and culture but why always differentiation between men and women? Maybe humans want to emphasise the sex differences through clothing?

Or maybe it's because men's and women's bodies are a different shape. Or perhaps because their different social roles require(d) different clothing. There are many possibilities.

TBH it's nonsense like this, that culture sprung from nowwhere, that puts me off feminisism.

I don't know what I've said that you've interpreted as "culture sprung from nowhere". But why would some (not necessarily well thought out) comments from some random person on the internet (who is most definitely not an academic feminist) put you off feminism?

Great article by Dr Em

uncommongroundmedia.com/understanding-your-nigella-the-harms-of-transvestic-paraphilia/

I think you have extrapolated from your own preferences to "people in general". I don't even understand what you mean by "communication" of sex. Whatever I wear, even if my clothes are literally "men's clothes" it's always obvious that I'm female, so I wouldn't need to "communicate" my sex even if I thought it was important to do so.

I presume that "gendered clothing" has existed for the same reason as any other clothing fashions. There are also very different styles in different parts of the world and throughout history. Why do any of these styles exist?