Mary Harrington - Why are so many transgender prisoners sex offenders?

You are aware of a leading trans male athlete who has been on radio explaining that female homosexuals can and should 'learn to cope' with straight sex rather than distress male people who say they are lesbians? Riley Bloody Dennis who explained that if you'd been sexually abused you could, as a lesbian, have a little time to get over its obvs, but you needed then to get on with unlearning your genital prejudices and getting your knickers off because social duty to male people.

Conversion therapy. Quite extreme conversion therapy, combined with homophobia and quite exceptional lack of capacity to respect or understand a woman as capable of having a sexual orientation that just didn't involve her providing sexual pleasure for men. But the right kind of people are doing it, so it's all ok. And no one's gatekeeping words or anything from the right kind of people, and it's not like there's a need to reciprocate all this care and sensitivity.

Apparently.

I feel physically sick at this conversation, but I'm the wrong kind of person, so it's all good.

You're not being threatened with anything just because I bring up that example, that there could be more complexity to sexuality.

If heterosexual women could truly train themselves out of these involuntary physiological responses to men, and train themselves to like women instead, then the political lesbians wouldn't go on to marry men!

I don't mean exactly that they "train themselves", but that they just experience this as a consequence of their strengthening ideology.

And of course they don't have to all go on to marry men. I don't know what happened in that case. Maybe they always continued to have attraction to men. Maybe they didn't have attraction, until there was a weakening of their ideology.

And if ideology can rewire sexuality, of course it may only happen in select cases, not for most people.

What if, what about, but but but but but if we split another hair.....

Yeah, that's why I'm now threatened with rape and kerb stomping for mentioning I'm a homosexual female. By people who think they're pro LGBT. Because I will not validate male egos with my body.

But you do whatever makes you happy with words, love. Fuck everyone else, eh?

Not to mention hundreds of years of lesbians and homosexual men continuing to exist, despite anything the Christian church had to say about it.

Let's be clear here what "other parts" means. It means body parts .

When women are sexually aroused, they experience vaginal lubrication, increased blood flow to the external genitalia (note to men: the clitoris is easier to locate when a woman is aroused), and the vagina lengthens and enlarges, otherwise known as vaginal tenting. Oh and pupul dilation.

If heterosexual women could truly train themselves out of these involuntary physiological responses to men, and train themselves to like women instead, then the political lesbians wouldn't go on to marry men!

Additionally, there are myriad posts on the internet from young lesbians seeking support, because they believe that they should be attracted to trans-identifying males but they are not. If enough consumption of ideological text could rewire sexuality, we wouldn't have any lesbians under 35.

Women who feel politically obliged

What if we say that their political feelings are so strong, that it overrides other parts of themselves.

So they don't feel attraction to men, but do feel attraction (exclusively) to women.

Lesbian, noun. A woman who is exclusively sexually attracted to members of the same sex, i.e. women.

Women who feel politically obliged to only pursue sexual relationships with women are not made lesbians by that conviction. Depending on exactly how difficult they find it to have relationships with other women, they may either be bisexual, heterosexual, or even actually lesbian.

While we are about it, secretly same-sex attracted women who are conditioned by wider society into having relationships with men are not made heterosexual. Penises are not magic.

Enduring unenjoyable sexual activity doesn't change your sexuality.

Mustn't gatekeep.

OK, we are kicking political lesbians out of the lesbian club, and transvestites out of the trans club.

Is everyone happy now? 🙂

I certainly can't find anything suggesting that. Nor does it make theoretical sense.Sexual offenders escalate. This is known. Men convicted of rape and murder will have histories of flashing. Those who have escalated to committing a contact types of sexual offence will meet the charging criteria for violent crimes, in the process of committing sexual assault. There's nothing non-violent about non-consensual access to someone's body for the purposes of sexual gratification. There is precedent that cutting someone's ponytail without their consent qualifies as Actual Bodily Harm, and sexual assault is a far more major violation than that.It's absolutely ludicrous to believe a population could include sexual offenders but not murderers. I'd find the other way around more plausible.

Sigh.

Yes. Everyone who likes the term for themselves is a lesbian. Mustn't be nasty. Mustn't gatekeep. Mustn't mess with special people's special personal avatars (but mess with homosexual females all you like, that's fine.)

The group of exclusively homosexual females is currently without a label. Their word was taken to be played with in other people's personal dramas. They therefore get scolded for calling themselves homosexual (men don't like the no or see the point of a female not being useful in some way to a male), for using the word female (men don't like the reality), and for not doing men based on what a man says is going on between their ears in the moment.

The one thing leads to the next thing - beyond fucked off with it all now. Wobbly boundaries and sentimental not wanting to upset anyone started this unholy mess.

Are they supposed to have a lower rate for all other violent crime (e.g. battery, actual bodily harm) or just murder?

I think the claim that trans prisoners have a lower rate of committing other violent offences turned out to be only a hypothetical. There is no basis for this claim in the data.

Representation (percentage) of male and female immediate custodial sentenced prisoner admissions in each offence group between January and March 2023

So. That interesting hypothesis that trans-identifying males might only look as if they're more likely to be sexual offenders than other male people. The claim was that they're less likely to commit other types of violent offences against the person than other males? Is it being claimed that this subset of male humans has the same sexual offending rate as the wider population of male humans then?

Are they supposed to have a lower rate for all other violent crime (e.g. battery, actual bodily harm) or just murder? How does that work? I find it implausible that someone who will commit rape (a violent crime) will only ever beat someone up as part of rape.

The government stats can't answer this question for me, because the prison service doesn't separate out trans-iding prisoners.

extract

In these Offender Management Statistics, prisoners are simply grouped into male and female, with no explanation as to the policy for recording the sex or gender of transgender prisoners.

His Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service (HMPPS) does collect data on transgender prisoners as part of an annual data collection exercise for its Offender Equalities Annual Report. This data represents a snapshot of the prison population on 31 March. For the purposes of this data collection, “transgender prisoners are defined as those individuals known within prison to be currently living in, or presenting in, a gender different to their legal gender and who have had a local case board (as defined by ‘The Care and Management of Individuals who are Transgender’ policy framework ) and is known to the diversity and inclusion lead within the individual prison where they are housed.”

Prisoners who possess a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) are excluded from the detailed data on transgender prisoners. As of 31 March 2022, 11 individuals in prisoners in England and Wales had a GRC. HMPPS also states that this method is “likely to underestimate the true number [of transgender prisoners]. This is because some transgender prisoners, both with and without GRCs, may not have declared that they are transgender or had a local case board.” The latest HMPPS report indicates that on 31 March 2022, • There were 230 transgender prisoners in England and Wales, not including those with a GRC. • Of these, 187 prisoners reported their ‘legal gender’ as male and 43 as female. For the most part this is likely to be capturing sex at birth, given that prisoners with a GRC are excluded from the analysis. • 181 of these individuals were in male prisons and 49 in female prisons. • 79 out of 120 prisons had at least one prisoner who identified as transgender.

If you are gay or lesbian it is simple. It means you are exclusively attracted to people of the same sex. That's it.

I have seen someone say that they were a lesbian for political reasons, like got into feminism at college, and they ended up marrying a man.

Maybe that's a "less valid" kind of lesbian, I don't know.

Really? I think that's the only issue.

People can believe what ever they want, I'm all for religious freedom and tolerance. I am not up for female people being subordinated due to people falling prey to a belief that some male people somehow deserve to be in female spaces, which has come to include sex offenders in women's prisons.

I doubt the woman being raped has the faintest interest in whether her rapist does or does not sincerely believe that he is a woman.

I would say trans is arguably a false belief, (although that depends on how exactly an individual trans person understands themselves), but I probably wouldn't put it on the same level as thinking you are Napoleon.

Like maybe a mix between mental health issue, belief system, and well good luck if you think you will be happy that way. Freedom to pursue happiness.

(Without thinking they should have the right to access opposite sex spaces and services and sports.)

Are you saying that being trans is not something real like a mental health condition, it's just a belief similar to a religious belief, so it should be protected in the same way?

I get the sense some people don't have much contact with nature or the animal world. And it's not all down to mating behaviours.

No one who deals with livestock is in any doubt that males are more aggressive. I have a large scar down the back of my leg, from a rooster, that says so.

There is a reason we castrate stallions who will be used mainly for work and not for breeding, or keep an eye on rams if we are in the pen with them.

I know kids who show cattle in rural shows. Some show bulls, but only the older kids, with young, immature bulls, and they generally have a ring in their nose. And they are still fractious. On the other hand, I remember seeing a young girl once with the pair of oxen she was showing. The two were kept together, she was grooming them in their pen, and at one point climbed on the back of one and had a nap. The oxen were completely docile, more so even than a cow.

You can look at how male grizzly bears will roam and attack cubs, similarly with male lions, even though they are not the main hunters, male elephants are much more randomly aggressive and groups of females are wary of them.

None of the mechanisms for this are socialization.

And whether they're sincere or not, the impact on women is the same.

Yes, but that's a different issue.

There are people who genuinely believe all sorts of things that aren't true.

Right, and if you believe that Jesus died for your sins, and came back from the dead, say, regardless of whether it's true or not, you have genuine religious beliefs that are protected on a legal level.

If you are lying then that probably makes a difference.

How, seriously, are women supposed to tell the difference between a male sincerely believing in the illusion of being a woman and a male who is faking believing in that illusion?

Why on earth should women's lives revolve around worrying what might be happening between the ears of a man?

And whether they're sincere or not, the impact on women is the same.

you know full well you aren't trans, but lie about it for whatever reason.

Really? How would anyone know when there's no definition?

But there is still a very real difference between someone that genuinely believes, and someone that knows they are lying.

Is there?

There are people who genuinely believe all sorts of things that aren't true. What I don't understand is why we treat some men's genuinely held belief that they are women differently from other men's genuinely held belief that they are Napoleon (for example).

I'm not sure if it's even important that we treat them differently depending on whether they genuinely believe that they're women (or Napoleon) or if they are just pretending.

As I said earlier, what's the difference between a man who is genuinely pretending to be a woman and a man who is pretending to pretend to be a woman?