I think it is quite telling that, yet again, you make assertions but do not cite evidence or provide links to research.

The fact that a study is old does not automatically make it "outdated". It is "outdated" if more recent studies show a different result and are at least as reliable. Please cite them because it would be helpful to know what they are.

You have still not provided any evidence to support your frankly bizarre claim that "No matter what hormones are fluctuating, violence is still a deliberate choice made by men to exert power".

@Signalbox
Even accounting for slight variations/ discrepancies in my figures you can see that TW are nowhere near in line with female offending rates.

Of course not. Studies have shown in Sweden, US and U.K. that TW tend to offend in similar patterns and rates as men. Reference my first post.

wrt the question of "whether TW are more likely than men to be sex offenders".

The answer is "YES".

Signalbox:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4896553-mary-harrington-why-are-so-many-transgender-prisoners-sex-offenders?page=2&reply=129232460

OldCrone:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4896553-mary-harrington-why-are-so-many-transgender-prisoners-sex-offenders?page=2&reply=129232765

Yes I have had babies. There is no such thing as maternal instinct. We are not ruled by biology. Any child of an abusive mother can tell you this.

The biology makes men violent mythos excuses them their VAWG, and part of this mythos which says that biology makes women instinctual nurturers of babies, robs us of all credit for the sacrifices we make for our babies no matter what we suffer for it.

Apologies Signalbox and OldCrone - I see now that you have dealt with the question of "whether TW are more likely than men to be sex offenders"!

The answer being, "YES".

Signalbox:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4896553-mary-harrington-why-are-so-many-transgender-prisoners-sex-offenders?page=2&reply=129232460

OldCrone:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4896553-mary-harrington-why-are-so-many-transgender-prisoners-sex-offenders?page=2&reply=129232765

Where is the evidence that transwomen are over-represented? % of convicts doesn’t show this. It needs to be offending rates based on whole population.

As I have said, repeatedly, the usual measure is offending rates calculated on a whole population basis.

Political lesbian is a term with a long history of use.

The current idea that sexuality or sexual attraction is always inborn, innate, and unchangeable, as a kind of supposedly known fact, is something that only became an unquestionable assumption since, I would say maybe beginning in the 1980s, and really solidifying in the public mind in the 90s, as part of a particular line of argument for the social acceptance of gay and lesbian people. But it's not a scientific statement. even if many people feel describes their experience of their sexual desire.

Before that, however, it was common to find a much wider variety of viewpoints on that topic, including within the gay community. The focus on the language tended much more about what people did, rather than specifically why they did it. Functionally, a political lesbian was only having sex with women, whatever the reason.

There's a certain sense to this approach, given that we really don't know what is in anyone's head, and the variability of human sexual feelings and emotions, and even the varying quality of individual sexual desire, especially over a lifetime. When you get too much into trying to describe an exact individual experience, you end up with a gazillion different sexualities and the current situation with the flag for every particular way of thinking and feeling about sex.

You don’t know the difference between biology and society?
Im not sure how to address that to be honest except to say that while we cannot change biology, we can change society ergo there is no agency when it comes to biology but there is agency when it comes to society.

@Bosky
Yea, think it is quite telling that you had to go back 43yrs to 1980 to be able to cherry pick a study that implies menstrual hormones make women violent. This is not a recent study at all and is outdated

”Violent crime and the menstrual cycle
d'Orbán & J Dalton
Psychological Medicine , Volume 10 , Issue 2 , May 1980 , pp. 353 - 359”

Yes, I get that but no one can conclude on the basis of % of convicts that the number of TW who are convicted sex offenders is “so many” as in disproportionately high. The statistic in isolation doesn’t tell us much and further research is needed.

It’s not crime rates vs “the general population” but the same sex controls. The study is very clear on this point.

When asked the author stated there was no difference between the sexes on this point, not no “break down”.

Check out the US and U.K. studies.

To get a view as to whether TW are more likely than men to be sex offenders you have to look at offending rates on a whole population basis, not % of convicts basis.

That is not what we are looking at.

What we are looking at is Mary Harrington's article, which asks:

"Why are so many transgender prisoners sex offenders?"

https://reactionaryfeminist.substack.com/p/how-many-sex-offenders?r=clsg2

A wee selection of those identities and how they view females

No matter what hormones are fluctuating, violence is still a deliberate choice made by men to exert power.

Insulin is a hormone. You have obviously never been physically attacked by an irrationally enraged, physically frail, octogenarian, diabetic female whose violence was a result of hypoglycaemia.

I hope that would come under the rubric of "while the balance of the mind was disturbed" rather than "a deliberate choice" but it is good example of how fluctuating hormones affect propensity to violence and that not only men are affected.

Another example of how women's propensity to violence can be affected by fluctuating hormones, while having nothing to do with "exerting power", would be in relation to the menstrual cycle.

Violent crime and the menstrual cycle
d'Orbán & J Dalton
Psychological Medicine , Volume 10 , Issue 2 , May 1980 , pp. 353 - 359

Synopsis

Of 50 women charged with crimes of violence, 44% committed their offence during the paramenstruum (P < 0·02) and there was a significant lack of offences during the ovulatory and post-ovulatory phases of the menstrual cycle (P < 0·01). This association could not be accounted for by psychosocial factors. Offences were unrelated to symptoms of premenstrual tension. When considering treatment, recurrent behavioural changes rather than subjective symptoms should be looked for.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/abs/violent-crime-and-the-menstrual-cycle/4F146CE0F5FB5CFE8624E16E554641A3

This seems to be unrelated to Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder (PMDD).

Brain reactivity during aggressive response in women with premenstrual dysphoric disorder treated with a selective progesterone receptor modulator
Nature, 2021 - open access

Abstract

Premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD) is a psychiatric condition characterized by late luteal phase affective, cognitive, and physical impairment. The disorder causes significant suffering in about 5% of women in their reproductive age.

Altered sensitivity of cognitive-affective brain circuits to progesterone and its downstream metabolite allopregnanolone is suggested to underlie PMDD symptomatology.

Core mood symptoms include irritability and anger, with aggression being the behavioral outcome of these symptoms.

The present study sought to investigate the neural correlates of reactive aggression during the premenstrual phase in women with PMDD, randomized to a selective progesterone receptor modulator (SPRM) or placebo.

Self-reports on the Daily Record of Severity of Problems were used to assess PMDD symptoms and gonadal hormone levels were measured by liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry.

Functional magnetic resonance imaging was performed in 30 women with PMDD, while performing the point subtraction aggression paradigm.

Overall, a high SPRM treatment response rate was attained (93%), in comparison with placebo (53.3%). Women with PMDD randomized to SPRM treatment had enhanced brain reactivity in the dorsal anterior cingulate cortex and dorsomedial prefrontal cortex during the aggressive response condition. The fronto-cingulate reactivity during aggressive responses depended on treatment, with a negative relationship between brain reactivity and task-related aggressiveness found in the placebo but not the SPRM group.

The findings contribute to define the role of progesterone in PMDD symptomatology, suggesting a beneficial effect of progesterone receptor antagonism, and consequent anovulation, on top-down emotion regulation, i.e., greater fronto-cingulate activity in response to provocation stimuli.

Full article:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-021-01010-9

However, there may be a correlation between PMMD and Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs).

Association between adverse childhood experiences and premenstrual disorders: a cross-sectional analysis of 11,973 women
BMC Medicine volume 20, Article number: 60 (2022)

Background

Childhood abuse and neglect have been associated with premenstrual disorders (PMDs), including premenstrual syndrome (PMS) and premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD). However, the associations of other adverse childhood experiences (ACEs) and the cumulative number of ACEs with PMDs remain to be explored.

Methods

To evaluate the associations of the cumulative number and types of ACEs with PMDs, we conducted a cross-sectional analysis with a subsample of menstruating women within the Stress-And-Gene-Analysis (SAGA) cohort, assessed for PMDs and ACEs (N=11,973). The cumulative and individual exposure of 13 types of ACEs was evaluated by a modified ACE-International Questionnaire. A modified version of the Premenstrual Symptom Screening Tool was used to identify probable cases of PMDs, further sub-grouped into PMS and PMDD. Prevalence ratios (PRs) of PMDs in relation to varying ACEs were estimated using Poisson regression.

Results

At a mean age of 34.0 years (standard deviation (SD) 9.1), 3235 (27%) met the criteria of probable PMDs, including 2501 (21%) for PMS and 734 (6%) for PMDD. The number of ACEs was linearly associated with PMDs (fully-adjusted PR 1.12 per ACE, 95% CI 1.11–1.13). Specifically, the PR for PMDs was 2.46 (95% CI 2.21–2.74) for women with 4 or more ACEs compared with women with no ACEs. A stronger association was observed for probable PMDD compared to PMS (p for difference <0.001). The associations between ACEs and PMDs were stronger among women without PTSD, anxiety, or depression, and without childhood deprivation and were stronger among women a lower level of social support (p for interaction<0.001). All types of ACEs were positively associated with PMDs (PRs ranged from 1.11 to 1.51); the associations of sexual abuse, emotional neglect, family violence, mental illness of a household member, and peer and collective violence were independent of other ACEs.

Conclusions

Our findings suggest that childhood adverse experiences are associated with PMDs in a dose-dependent manner. If confirmed by prospective data, our findings support the importance of early intervention for girls exposed to ACEs to minimize risks of PMDs and other morbidities in adulthood.

Full article:
https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-022-02275-7

GuanYinShanxi if you want us to take your assertion seriously, that "No matter what hormones are fluctuating, violence is still a deliberate choice made by men to exert power" you will have to do better than parrot "Patriarchy", "Theories of Violence" and "go read a book about the Kush".

But, hey, anything is better than letting us discuss why so many males in prison who identify as women are convicted sex offenders?

🤔

When I say "social pressure", what do you think I mean? Your parents nagging you to give them grandchildren?

I mean fear of complete social ostracism, an entire childhood being taught that same-sex attraction is impossible and/or sinful, and the resulting feelings of self-loathing, and so much more...

You think that level of conditioning is so weak? Weaker than getting involved in the feminism movement at university?

Links for the quotes.

https://archive.ph/18GvC

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/05/19/a-pornified-view-of-womanhood/

And also Lilly Wachowski ("Trans porn made me trans.")

https://twitter.com/genericeddie/status/1659081857793769472

They claim to have lady brains and womanly identities.

It's all bollocks.

Some, like Juno Dawson, are self-hating homosexuals (Quote: “I think there are a lot of gay men out there who are gay men as a consolation prize because they couldn’t be women. That was certainly true of me.”)

Most late-transitioning males do so because of a paraphilia or porn addiction, like Andrea Long Chu (Quote: "‘At the centre of sissy porn lies the asshole, a kind of universal vagina through which femaleness can always be accessed. Getting fucked makes you female because fucked is what a female is.’)

Yes, they may genuinely believe they have these identities, but they're pretty fucked up identities, don't you think?

Of course they continued to experience attraction to men.

Just as same-sex attracted women socially pressured into opposite-sex marriages still experience same-sex attraction.

Social pressure to marry isn't really the same as a hard-core devotee to an ideology.

What do you mean by adopt identities?

You accept that they genuinely believe that they have this identity? (Even if in a confused way, like we could question, "what is it like to identify as a woman?")

Of course they continued to experience attraction to men.

Just as same-sex attracted women socially pressured into opposite-sex marriages still experience same-sex attraction.

People are very invested in the idea that given enough incentive, women can channel their sexuality along the approved routes. Very, very invested. Women's sexuality is expected to be conveniently malleable, and it is women's duty to examine their sexual orientation and find themselves wanting.

Political lesbians are not lesbians. They are women experiencing wider social pressure and shame, focused on their sex lives. There has been over a millennium of women experiencing that.

Please link the new studies that have examined criminality.

And you have misunderstood what the study said.

Before 1989, those who had transitioned (the whole group, not separated by sex) showed higher rates of criminal offending than the general population.

After 1989, those who had transitioned (the whole group, not separated by sex) had the same rate of criminal offending as the general population.

When questioned, the author clarified that there was no breakdown by sex regarding this observation.

The breakdown by sex was for the entire period.

But if there are newer studies examining criminal offending, I would be interested to read them. I realise the thread has moved on and I will read onwards to see whether anyone else has asked. It certainly seems unlikely that giving troubled young women testosterone is likely to make them less aggressive.

I'm talking about someone's self chosen ideology perhaps rewiring sexuality in a minority of cases.

I haven't suggested that anyone should have an ideology forced on them that specifically involves changing their sexuality.

And trans ideology is something I'm against just in general.

No, lesbians ARE being faced with this kind of thing. It happens. I've experienced it on MN in threads from MRAs. And the wedge that allows it is refusing to respect the word lesbian as having a set meaning, which means that lesbians trying to live that meaning are as wanglable as the words have been by people who don't have skin in that game and like wangling.

It's not like bigger boys did it and ran away. This is where it starts, this is how it has happened. This is how homophobia has been made acceptable.