Mary Harrington - Why are so many transgender prisoners sex offenders?

I took the essential premise of Mary Harrington's article to be that numerically there is no doubt that trans women are over represented in prison compared to every other gender. Furthermore, an extremely high proportion of trans women prisoners have been charged or are on remand for sex offences. Despite this extreme over representation, no funded research has explored why this should be the case.

She goes on to argue that people have hypothesised why this difference exists but it's considered either too unimportant or too controversial to get funded.

It would actually be quite simple to research this topic in ways that would provide some useful answers. For instance, how many transgender prisoners have been convicted of sex offences as men before they transitioned? How many have ever engaged in sex work before their current offence? How many receive custodial and non custodial sentences?

There we are - a whole research programme a lot of which could be undertaken using analysis of existing data.

So to reply to both of you at once.
There is no such thing as a male or female brain when it comes to biological differences.

Things like identity, personality, beliefs/faith and so on to include the belief in the concept of gender and feelings of gender are individual.

Why we are who we are…despite all being humans with the same physiology…is the subject of much philosophical debate. Are infants blank slates and therefore their identity and personality is a result of the sum of all their early life experiences? Or is there a spirit or soul type of energy to our consciousness that for lack of better word inhabits the body and that is the source?

I don’t know all of gender ideology, much of it I view as a new sort of religion or faith. But yes, if they think the brain is gendered that is not possible. Minds can be gendered, but the brain as in the organ is not.

I have no issue with people being transgender and wanting to live as the opposite sex. That’s not the issue. The issue to my mind is predators pretending to be transgender when they are not to secure preferential treatment. It’s the wolf in sheep’s clothing phenomenon that I suspect is going on with the current spate of sex offender convictions of mostly paedophiles deciding post arrest they are trans. It’s too convenient, too coincidental, and is a departure from the studies on criminal offending.

I think self-ID is driving it to be honest. I know it’s a real pain in the arse for transgender people to transition and many activists want self-ID but I think sorry convenience for any group (transgender) should not outweigh the safety of any other group (women and children). It’s a greater good question.

@IamAporcupine
“If you do not think this (ie the increased aggression and sex drive in transmen) is the effect of testosterone - are you saying that, over two/three decades of socialisation as a female can be changed by 6 months of 'socialisation as male'? Or are you just saying that it is a placebo effect?”

No. Because international studies have shown that FtM retain the female patterns of criminal offending. So all the testosterone they take has no impact on their propensity for violent criminal acts. Posters have made much of less than 100 transmen who transitioned pre1989 in one country, Sweden, having slightly higher criminal offending than their same sex (female) controls which was still well, well below the male rate of offending. The authors themselves stated it was lack of societal support post transition pre1989 that was the likely clause of this early blip in the data. This same Swedish study showed post 1989 all FtM transmen retained the female patterns and rates of criminal offending.

So, that brings me to the idea that adults who transition get the socialisation of the opposite sex. They don’t. They really really don’t. Men do not get socialised as if they were female even after they surgically go from MtF transwomen. What they get is the socialisation for transwomen. Society doesn’t view transwomen as female and certainly not the same as women.

The mere fact we have civilisation is evidence we are not animals who have no self awareness and merely follow instinctual patterns of behaviour.

It’s not at all an incredible claim that humans are not cats or other animals.

@Bosky
Your assertions have zero credibility unless you cite supporting evidence and, correct me if I am wrong, but so far you expect us to take your word as gospel.

Credibility is not something I need to prove to you. I’m not fussed that you are clinging to studies from 43yrs ago and refuse to acknowledge almost a half century of progress in this area of study. That’s your choice if you think science has gone on a bender. I have no such expectation that you or anyone take my word as gospel because it’s not my word and this isn’t a religious issue to me..it may be to you as biological essentialism is a faith system, and if so, I respect that.

It is a bizarre claim that the legal and justice system does not recognise culpability and mitigation

I made no such claim. In fact I said the opposite. Your detailed post does not contain one factor regarding culpability or it’s mitigation for ‘raging man hormones made him do it’ or similar.

Yes I’m intrigued where the feeling of “gender” (that they call Gender Identity) originate from if not from the brain? Isn’t the whole premise of gender ideology that the brain is the primary gendered organ and dictates whether or not you are male or female / man or woman.

There was an increase in the number of prisoners claiming to be Jewish a few years ago, because they got better food.

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/scottish-prisons-clamp-down-inmates-prisoners-convert-judaism-jewish-kosher-food-orange-new-black-1.486682

Any prisoner can have halal food. You don't have to become a Muslim to eat their food in prison.
Men pretend to transgender in prison because they do get treated differently. They get new womens pants and hair products and make up bought for them - albeit cheap stuff. And yes, they are quite often, sex offenders.

Surely it's just as simple. If there is no such thing as a male or female brain then nobody can claim to have one or the other - we all just have a human brain.

What do you believe is going on with someone who genuinely believes they are the opposite sex? Are they just as deluded as the people who genuinely believe they have a cat identity?

Well, yes, we've already discussed the fact that some men who claim to believe that they are women are lying.

But when a man who claims to believe he is a woman has committed a crime, why does it matter whether or not that man really believes he's a woman? He's still a man no matter what deluded thoughts he has to the contrary.

Or are you just saying that people who truly believe they are the opposite sex are mentally ill and should be treated accordingly?

And I notice you didn’t answer Bosky's second question: What is "trans"?

Thanks for making me read on the subject

Interestingly, it's been shown that at least part of the social behaviour in female bonobos is driven by hormones too, oxytocin in this case.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36214311/

More to the point, it seems that the differences in reproductive strategy (reduced mating competition and agression) seen in male bonobos (as opposed to chimps) is associated with differences in the levels of testosterone production during their lifespan.
https://evolutionaryanthropology.duke.edu/sites/evolutionaryanthropology.duke.edu/files/site-images/different-ontogenetic-patterns-of-testosterone-production-wobber-et-al-2013.original.pdf

I am not primatologist, so happy to be told (by one!) that this is not relevant.

Anyway, there was a question that you didn't answer. I'll copy it again here

GuanYinShanxi: Yes, we do hear many people repeating the old mythos of testosterone making you aggressive. They believe it to be true, so they see only what they believe. They may even feel they have license to act more aggressively because they take testosterone.

If you do not think this (ie the increased aggression and sex drive in transmen) is the effect of testosterone - are you saying that, over two/three decades of socialisation as a female can be changed by 6 months of 'socialisation as male'? Or are you just saying that it is a placebo effect?

Humans are animals. We share quite a lot in terms of our biology with cats. The same kinds of hormones, nervous system, etc.

If you want to argue that somehow human beings, of all animals, are uniquely free of instinctual drives and physiological influences, you will need to show some pretty stiff evidence, because it's an incredible claim.

Your assertions have zero credibility unless you cite supporting evidence and, correct me if I am wrong, but so far you expect us to take your word as gospel.

It is a bizarre claim that the legal and justice system does not recognise culpability and mitigation:

Culpability is assessed with reference to the offender’s role, level of intention and/or premeditation and the extent and sophistication of planning.

• The court should balance these factors to reach a fair assessment of the offender’s overall culpability in all the circumstances of the case and the offender.
• The mere presence of a factor that is inherent in the offence should not be used in assessing culpability.
• Deliberate or gratuitous violence or damage to property, over and above what is needed to carry out the offence will normally indicate a higher level of culpability.
• For offences where there is no requirement for the offender to have any level of intention, recklessness, negligence, dishonesty, knowledge, understanding or foresight for the offence to be made out, the range of culpability may be inferred from the circumstances of the offence as follows:

• Low/no culpability - act or omission with none of the above featuresFor offences that require some level of culpability (eg intention, recklessness or knowledge) to be made out, the range of culpability will be narrower. Relevant factors may typically include but are not limited to:

These models of assessing culpability will not be applicable to all offences.

Factors reducing seriousness or reflecting personal mitigation
(Factors are not listed in any particular order and are not exhaustive)

• No previous convictions or no relevant/recent convictions
• Good character and/or exemplary conduct
• Remorse
• Self-reporting
• Cooperation with the investigation/ early admissions
• Little or no planning
• The offender was in a lesser or subordinate role if acting with others / performed limited role under direction
• Involved through coercion, intimidation or exploitation
• Limited awareness or understanding of the offence
• Little or no financial gain
• Delay since apprehension
• Activity originally legitimate
• Age and/or lack of maturity
• Sole or primary carer for dependent relatives
• Physical disability or serious medical condition requiring urgent, intensive or long-term treatment
• Mental disorder or learning disability
• Determination and/or demonstration of steps having been taken to address addiction or offending behaviour

They may be deluded, as in genuinely believe that they are rather than knowingly lying but the human brain is not a cat brain so it is not possible.

The problem with woman vs man, is there is no such thing as a male or female brain. So it’s more complex than cat vs human brain.

Apparently some humans ID as cats. I wonder if those people are faking it or if they have a genuine cat identity.

Sorry! I meant I didn't understand that whole paragraph. The one starting with the bold sentence.

I didn't understand this sentence in that article:

But that’s not what we see. Analysisis_ shows, for example, that out of the total population of sex offenders registered as women in 2019, trans-identified males made up around 38% of the total: definitely a higher figure than you’d expect if this were a representative proportion of trans individuals, let alone of women.*

Earlier in the piece she says that the total number of female (actually female) sex offenders is 150. So are trans women making up 38% of the 150..?

Humans are not cats. That’s not garbage.

The same way you fake a mental illness after murdering or assaulting someone. Are you seriously asserting that humans never ever lie to save their skins?

You and I both know there have been dozens of studies between now and 1980 on the causes of violence. I see no need to post them. They are there. You have seen them.

I really don’t think that it is a bizarre claim that violence is a choice, as our entire legal and justice system is based on this widely known and accepted fact.

"No true Scotsman . . ."

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-no-true-scotsman-fallacy-250339

@IamAporcupine
Not in apes though
Er, Bonobos are matriarchal. Not even all apes have the “males fight for females what they dominate” sexist trope we’ve been fed.

How do you "fake being trans"? What is "trans"?

Your logical leaps here are pretty extreme.

Mother cats normally lick their newborns, eat the placenta, and nurse them when they are born. Every once in a while, you get one who doesn't, who will ignore them. Similarly other animals, guided by maternal instinct, they care for their young, except occasionally when one ignores, drives away, or even kills their offspring instead.

No one says the existence of these instances means that there is no such thing as maternal instinct in cats.

DO you honestly think that if there is any variation in behaviour, it proves that something isn't instinctive?

This is the kind of garbage that comes from bad sociology courses, with teachers who don't know a darn thing about biology.

That leads back to my suspicion that paedophiles are faking being TW for self-preservation reasons and why we cannot allow self-ID but need court appointed psychologists to assess any male who comes out as a TW after arrest.

This is what I think is skewing the figures, especially when you consider that most of the difference between the two is actually pedophiles and not those who have sexually assaulted women.