Mary Harrington - Why are so many transgender prisoners sex offenders?

Another point to add to add to the points already made is that sex offends are seen as fair game in prison and are often targets for violence. If a sex offender then identifies as a women they are then removed for their own safety.

I would love to press them on 'mannerisms'. Preferably while sitting in front of them.

Category 2: STRONG SUPPORTING CONFIRMATION

Appearance and mannerisms - this may include clothes, hair style, use of prosthetics, or other items to express gender identity.

So someone like Isla Bryson with his wig and pink leggings is showing strong supporting evidence that he is living as a woman, despite his fondness for using his penis to rape women. And that absurd Canadian teacher with his enormous fake breasts would also be considered to be showing strong supporting evidence of living in his gender identity.

And mannerisms? What on earth do they mean? Interesting that they decline to say what these mannerisms actually are which supposedly express gender identity.

They've reduced women to a costume and stereotypical behaviours. Do none of the people who write this stuff ever read what they've written and go 'hold on a minute...'?

Also worth bearing in mind -

Almost 80% of women prisoners in Scotland have a history of significant head injury - mostly through through domestic abuse. Almost all participants in the study, 95%, reported a history of abuse, with more than half reporting sexual abuse in childhood and 46% reporting sexual abuse in adulthood. A history of alcohol or drug misuse was common, and 92% complained of mental health difficulties, with anxiety and depression the most common'

Quoted from this article - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57103702

These are vulnerable women, locked away for mostly low level crimes being imprisoned with males, many of whom have been convicted of sexual offences against women.

Females (proper women) are naturally around 50% of the overall population in any country.

I would think this is linked to a fetish element of these men who are clearly obsessed with sex and twisted already before they then try a different sexual route of saying they are a woman as well as feeling more powerful in a womans prison. They would be more able to physically dominate other prisoners there to avoid being beaten up as a sex offender in a male prison. Plus obviously women available for the to ogle and potentially rape.
I feel like Alice in Wonderland watching the whole trans rights issue. Women need to come together now as much as the suffragettes did so many years ago. It is frankly terrifying and yet so many women I know do not watch the news or read anything about what is happening in the world at all. They just focus on their own daily routine and so they are not remotely aware of how we are being treated.

What has been dubbed Prison Onset Gender Dysphoria -

www.nationalreview.com/news/transgender-sex-offenders-placed-in-womens-jails-in-scotland/

archive.ph/2022.10.04-232359/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-scottish-trans-prisoners-changed-gender-after-convictions-pftqbbhg6

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/anger-trans-inmates-revert-males-25840252

And I've seen quite a few posters recently talk about assessments, tests or a medical diagnosis to 'prove' that a male prisoner is transgender. No need in Scotland. The Scottish Prison System work on a self id basis (advised as they were by the Scottish Trans Alliance). No matter if the male has been convicted of sexual offences - as seen by the Isla Bryson case.

I've seen the same posters declare us all terrible transphobes while stating that they don't agree with self id. I hate to tell you....

The MoJ and HMPPS has a "Self-ID" policy but considers how well a prisoner's transgender identity is "confirmed" by different types of evidence when making decisions about where the prisoner will be accommodated.

Policy: The Care and Management of Individuals who are Transgender
31 March 2023

ANNEX A

ALWAYS ALLOCATE IN LINE WITH THE BELOW THREE POINTS:

No transgender women with a current or previous conviction for a sexual or violent offence (see Annex D) or current charge and/or who have birth genitalia can be directly allocated to the general women’s estate.

Transgender women who fall into one or more of these groups will generally be held in a prison which matches their sex registered at birth (those without GRCs), or in separate accommodation within the women’s estate (those with GRCs).

All other transgender individuals (transgender women who do not fall into one of the above groups, transgender men and non-binary individuals) must be allocated according to their legal gender.

(lots more detail - see chart on p30)

ANNEX B

Supporting Confirmation of the Gender with which the Offender Identifies

When an individual discloses that they are transgender, the following chart may assist in assessing the strength of evidence of living in the gender the individual identifies with, to help with location decisions and sentence plans.

p31
Chart showing examples of Full Confirmation, Strong Confirmation, Limited Confirmation and Counter Confirmation

p32
OFFENDERS MUST BE PERMITTED TO EXPRESS THEIR GENDER IDENTITY WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE ANY SUPPORTING EVIDENCE. HOWEVER, LOCATION DECISIONS TO A PRISON OR AP MUST FOLLOW THE GUIDANCE CONTAINED IN ANNEX A

Category 1: FULL SUPPORTING CONFIRMATION

This is evidence which fully confirms the individual’s legal gender. The best form of confirmation is a birth certificate. Staff should ask an individual to produce a birth certificate which will confirm their sex at birth or, if they have received a GRC and were born in the UK, a new birth certificate will have been issued showing the acquired (‘new’) gender. Asking an individual what is recorded on their birth certificate and requesting sight of this should always be the first step in confirming legal gender.

However, staff can ask for sight of a GRC (or for sight of an application for a GRC) if a birth certificate is not available. Should an individual provide a GRC as evidence, or give permission for the Gender Recognition Panel to confirm that a GRC has been issued and confirmation is received, this must be accepted as full evidence of legal gender. If a person discloses that they have a GRC, or have applied for a GRC, the individual should be asked to provide written consent for information about their previous gender to be disclosed to/from relevant staff in or on behalf of HMPPS. However, if they do not provide consent this information can still be disclosed where necessary for offender management purposes or where any other exemption under s22 of the Gender Recognition Act 2004 applies (see 4.69-4.72). Information about the gender history of an individual with a GRC should be treated carefully, as with any other sensitive information. Disclosure of this information that is not necessary for offender management purposes may amount to a criminal offence.

Driving licences and passports do not confirm legal gender. Only a birth certificate, GRC or confirmation from the Gender Recognition Panel should be accepted.

Category 2: STRONG SUPPORTING CONFIRMATION

Strong supporting evidence may include the length of time the person has been living in the gender they identify with. Care must be taken here in relation to younger people who may not have had the opportunity to demonstrate this due to their age. Other supporting confirmation may be presented as follows:

Healthcare documents - this may include documents from the GP or from a Gender Identity Clinic.

Appearance and mannerisms - this may include clothes, hair style, use of prosthetics, or other items to express gender identity. Care must be taken here as the person may not be confident to appear in court or for a pre-sentence report appointment in the gender they identify with, or may have been remanded into custody and then disclose during the course of their sentence. In these circumstances they may not have gained access to items to express their gender identity.

Evidence of day to day living – this may include bank or other cards, a driving licence or a passport showing a change of name and/or expression of gender identity.

p33
Category 3: LIMITED SUPPORTING CONFIRMATION

This may include similar confirmation to STRONG confirmation but may reflect that a person is in an earlier stage of transitioning or that they have not reached a decision.

For individuals who identify as non-binary, gender fluid or cross dresser and those who are intersex and not intending to transition to a gender opposite to that assigned at birth, they will be located in the part of the prison or AP estate consistent with their legal gender.

Particular care should be given when considering confirmation from younger people and also from foreign national prisoners who may not have had the opportunity or recourse to supporting confirmation.

Category 4: COUNTER EVIDENCE

The wider Ministry of Justice review established that people who are transgender are overwhelmingly genuine about living in the gender with which they identity. It was, however, accepted that, as with other areas of prison life, some people will always attempt to test, exploit or undermine the system. In cases where there is a concern around an individual’s sincerity, the confirmation that makes that person’s views credible will be examined (including counter- evidence) and application of the decision-making criteria would be able to identify those who may pose a risk to others.

Counter confirmation may include the lack of any supporting evidence of living in the gender with which the person identifies and may be linked to personality disorder, offending profile, sentencing outcomes and/or motivation to undermine the system. Where it is considered thatan individual is insincere, this should be clearly recorded and subject to risk, operational and security assessments, and shared with the individual.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-care-and-management-of-individuals-who-are-transgender

HM Chief Inspector of Prisons’ Annual Report for 2018-19:

"a survey of 5,133 adult male prisoners found that 2 per cent self-identified as transgender which extrapolated across jails would mean about 1,500.

Transgender prisoners are entitled to shower alone, have separate cells and can apply to switch between male and female prisons."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hm-chief-inspector-of-prisons-annual-report-2018-to-2019

HM Chief Inspector of Prisons annual report: 2019 to 2020

"In our survey, 2% of respondents held in men’s prisons described themselves as transgender or transsexual."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hm-chief-inspector-of-prisons-annual-report-2019-to-2020

Survey data is not included in later Annual Reports but in separate Excel spreadsheets and I have not looked at them yet.

For 2018-19 and 2019-20 the survey data is broken down by a number of religious and ethnic groups, so you can see how many men in each group identify as transgender or, in a different question, say that they are female or non-binary.

The only thing that jumped out at me was to do with male prisoners who identify as "Travellers" (approx 5% of the male prison population).

However, Foreign Nationals are more likely to say that they are Travellers so it is possible that, as with the Census, the answers to some questions might be unreliable due to difficulty understanding the questions.

Assuming that the questions were understood correctly and were answered honestly, Travellers also seem more likely to feel unsafe and experience more unpleasant incidents and difficulties.

Men's Prisons 2018-19

Are you from a traveller community (e.g. Gypsy, Roma, Irish Traveller)?

Yes: 287
No: 5,349

Foreign nationals: 8% said they were Travellers
British nationals: 5% said they were Travellers

Questions and Answers by Travellers vs Non-travellers

Is your gender female or non-binary?
Travellers: 5%
Non-travellers: 1%

Are you homosexual, bisexual or other sexual orientation?
Travellers: 8%
Non-travellers: 4%

Do you identify as transgender or transsexual?
Travellers: 10%
Non-travellers: 1%

Other questions where there was much of a difference.

Are you under 21 years of age?
Travellers: 10%
Non-travellers: 7%

Are you 50 years of age or older?
Travellers: 6%
Non-travellers: 14%

Are you from a minority ethnic group?
Travellers: 11%
Non-travellers: 32%

Are you on recall?
Travellers: 15%
Non-travellers: 8%

Are you Muslim?
Travellers: 6%
Non-travellers: 17%

Do you have any mental health problems?
Travellers: 54%
Non-travellers: 42%

Do you consider yourself to have a disability?
Travellers: 51%
Non-travellers: 33%

Do you have any children under the age of 18?
Travellers: 65%
Non-travellers: 49%

Are you a foreign national?
Travellers: 14%
Non-travellers: 9%

Have you ever been in the armed services?
Travellers: 13%
Non-travellers: 6%

ARRIVAL AND RECEPTION

(Just the answers that are highlighted in the report as "significantly more positive/negative than the comparator")

When you first arrived, did you have any problems?
Travellers: 83%
Non-travellers: 76%

Did you have problems with:

Feeling suicidal?
Travellers: 19%
Non-travellers: 12%

Other mental health problems? (not highlighted for some reason)
Travellers: 28%
Non-travellers: 21%

Physical health problems?
Travellers: 21%
Non-travellers: 15%

Drugs or alcohol (e.g. withdrawal)?
Travellers: 20%
Non-travellers: 14%

Needing protection from other prisoners?
Travellers: 13%
Non-travellers: 8%

FIRST NIGHT AND INDUCTION
(Just the answers that are highlighted in the report as "significantly more positive/negative than the comparator")

Before you were locked up on your first night, were you offered:

Toiletries / other basic items?
Travellers: 41%
Non-travellers: 52%

Something to eat?
Travellers: 64%
Non-travellers: 75 %

The chance to see someone from health care?
Travellers: 51%
Non-travellers: 60%

Did you feel safe on your first night here?
Travellers: 61%
Non-travellers: 70%

PICKING OUT JUST QUESTIONS THAT MIGHT BE RELEVANT FROM THE REST OF THE SURVEY

FAITH

Do you have a religion?
Travellers: 80%
Non-travellers: 69%

Are you able to attend religious services, if you want to?
Travellers: 79%
Non-travellers: 87%

CONTACT WITH FAMILY AND FRIENDS

Have staff here encouraged you to keep in touch with your family / friends?
Travellers: 36%
Non-travellers: 28%

TIME OUT OF CELL

Do you know what the unlock and lock-up times are supposed to be here?
Travellers: 81%
Non-travellers: 88%

Do you usually spend less than 2 hours out of your cell on a typical weekday?
Travellers: 36%
Non-travellers: 23%

Do you get association more than 5 days in a typical week, if you want it?
Travellers: 48%
Non-travellers: 60%

Could you go outside for exercise more than 5 days in a typical week, if you wanted to?
Travellers: 51%
Non-travellers: 61%

For those who have made a complaint:

Have you ever been prevented from making a complaint here when you wanted to?
Travellers: 40%
Non-travellers: 27%

For those who need it, is it easy to:

Get bail information?
Travellers: 25%
Non-travellers: 16%

HEALTH CARE

Do you have any mental health problems?
Travellers: 54%
Non-travellers: 42%

OTHER SUPPORT NEEDS

Do you consider yourself to have a disability?
Travellers: 51%
Non-travellers: 33%

Have you been on an ACCT in this prison? (assessment, care in custody and teamwork (ACCT) case management procedures because they were at risk of self-harm or suicide)
Travellers: 31%
Non-travellers: 17%

ALCOHOL AND DRUGS

Did you have an alcohol problem when you came into this prison?
Travellers: 26%
Non-travellers: 16%

For those who had / have an alcohol problem:

Have you been helped with your alcohol problem in this prison?
Travellers: 64%
Non-travellers: 57%

Did you have a drug problem when you came into this prison (including illicit drugs and medication not prescribed to you)?
Travellers: 40%
Non-travellers: 28%

Have you developed a problem with illicit drugs since you have been in this prison?
Travellers: 24%
Non-travellers: 14%

Have you developed a problem with taking medication not prescribed to you since you have been in this prison?
Travellers: 18%
Non-travellers: 9%

For those who had / have a drug problem:

Is it very / quite easy to get alcohol in this prison?
Travellers: 40%
Non-travellers: 27%

SAFETY

Have you ever felt unsafe here?
Travellers: 58%
Non-travellers: 50%

Do you feel unsafe now?
Travellers: 34%
Non-travellers: 24%

Have you experienced any of the following from other prisoners here:

Sexual assault?
Travellers: 6%
Non-travellers: 2%

Theft of canteen or property?
Travellers: 33%
Non-travellers: 26%

Have you experienced any of the following from staff here:

Sexual assault?
Travellers: 5%
Non-travellers: 2%

Theft of canteen or property?
Travellers: 17%
Non-travellers: 9%

Other bullying / victimisation?
Travellers: 18%
Non-travellers: 16%

Not experienced any of these from staff here
Travellers: 46%
Non-travellers: 58%

BEHAVIOUR MANAGEMENT
Have you been physically restrained by staff in this prison, in the last 6 months?
Travellers: 20%
Non-travellers: 13%

For those who have been restrained in the last 6 months:

Have you spent one or more nights in the segregation unit in this prison in the last 6 months?
Travellers: 18%
Non-travellers: 9%

EDUCATION, SKILLS AND WORK

In this prison, is it easy to get into the following activities:

Voluntary work outside of the prison?
Travellers: 13%
Non-travellers: 5%

Paid work outside of the prison?
Travellers: 9%
Non-travellers: 4%

In this prison, have you done the following activities:

Voluntary work outside of the prison?
Travellers: 51%
Non-travellers: 33%

Paid work outside of the prison?
Travellers: 49%
Non-travellers: 32%

For those who have done the following activities, do you think they will help you on release:

Prison job?
Travellers: 52%
Non-travellers: 40%

PLANNING AND PROGRESSION

For those who have a custody plan:

In this prison, have you done:

Offending behaviour programmes?
Travellers: 64%
Non-travellers: 49%

Other programmes?
Travellers: 59%
Non-travellers: 43%

One to one work?
Travellers: 55%
Non-travellers: 36%

Been on a specialist unit? (Does this refer to sex offenders??)
Travellers: 42%
Non-travellers: 19%

ROTL - day or overnight release? [release on temporary licence]
Travellers: 37%
Non-travellers: 20%

For those who expect to be released in the next 3 months:

Do you need help to sort out the following for when you are released:

Getting back in touch with family or friends?
Travellers: 60%
Non-travellers: 38%

===========

I don't know what to make of the above re Travellers vs Non-Travellers. Maybe there is someone here who can shed some light? Or is it possible, as with the census, that the data is unreliable?

Unsettling data but important non the less. I think it's hard to talk about this because many gay men were unfairly accused of this for years so many are afraid of the idea of repeating that ugly history. But it shouldn't be ignored.

I do think there are likely a few reasons for this.

The correlation with certain other mental health issues may be part of it. There are some indications that a greater portion of trans people suffer from personality disorders, and perhaps that also correlates with sex offenses to some degree.

Relatedly or not, I think lack of boundaries around sexual behaviour are a significant element. And it's not that the boundaries society has are too harsh, at least not for the most part. It is that some individuals get some kind of payoff for pushing secual (and often other) boundaries.

So if you look at the whole picture of all international studies to date and leave out the very few transmen who have transitioned before 1989 in Sweden- my summary is correct as we understand things now.

I'm guessing your claim that biology plays no part would be highly controversial.

I'm sure another thread could start "Why are so many average male athletes transgender", and we could get people looking at studies, hormonal levels etc, when the obvious answer is that they can easily get success by claiming to be a woman.

If we build it, they will come.

Creating trans wings, allowing offenders to use different names in trials and on registers, more lenient sentences and suddenly you have a lot more "trans" criminals.

If tomorrow policies were created that gave criminals with handlebar moustaches preferential treatment, we'd then have a thread about "why do so many prisoners have handlebar moustaches?".

Third spaces are as ever the only rational answer. I'm perfectly happy to respect that some men feel feminine/do not feel comfortable in their bodies or with masculinity/have multiple reasons why they prefer to wear skirts, have long hair, enact their internalised stereotypes of what they perceive womanhood to be, and it's naive and ridiculous to deny that sex plays a large, front and centre part in this for adult transitioners. You cannot separate the reasons for transition without mind melds and why gatekeep it anyway?

Provide trans wings, men are free to identify and enact what they like, and if the prison service want to support the freedoms of identifying as different species or Klingons or elves, that's up to them. Any read of a prison officer's memoir will quickly tell you; mens prisons are boring, anything that adds entertainment and stimulation will be grabbed for. They're also a hotbed of bloody awful psychology and behavioural issues 24/7. If you offer male sex offenders, who get off on power, control, coercion, intimidation, and the fear and distress of women, then you'd have to have the IQ of a small brick to not understand immediately why access to a women's prison would be a much better plan than being banged up with a lot of blokes.

The bottom line is I'll respect men's rights to do them however they wish. But not at any point to be anywhere near women's provisions, or provided with non consenting women's bodies as resources for their use. No men in women's prisons ever. Men can be TW. No man ever changes sex.

totally agree @ManuelBensonsLeftBoot thats why TW idea of what it “feels like to be a woman” are just a bunch of gender stereotypes bolted together

I'm a woman and I don't know 'how it feels to be a woman'. I know how it feels to be me. I know I share certain biological attributes with other women and will have experienced common experiences and expectations but it doesn't mean that I know how every woman on the planet feels. We are not a hive mind. The things we share are our biology and to a degree our socialization (although this is time/place specific) and those are the things that someone born make can never experience.

Ask them how often they think about the Roman Empire? 😂

😆😆😆 I have very much enjoyed this unfolding on social media

as a man cannot possibly know what it’s like to be a woman - I mean how can one know what it’s like to be like half of the population?? they’re always lying. What they are saying is they feel the way they believe (but don’t know because how could they?) that women feel

it’s bonkers

Ask them how often they think about the Roman Empire? 😂

I think what they do is try to separate the men who are genuinely pretending to be women from those who are pretending to pretend to be women.

😂

'if they are transgender or lying about being transgender.'

Really interesting idea.

How do we determine if a man is pretending to be a woman, or just pretending to be pretending?

As has been noted before - why wouldn't you? If you are in the lowest class of prisoner already, what on earth would stop you from IDing as a woman?

The purpose of the assessment is to determine if they are transgender or lying about being transgender

Claiming to be the opposite sex is a lie.
'Trans' is no longer classed as a mental illness so there is no objective way of separating those we used to call transexuals from the the men with the multiple sexual paraphilias.

It similar to the concern that crimes by female women should only be counted as such if the offender was actually a female woman?

Female women? Really?
Women are female. There is no such thing as a male woman.
No men should be included in female crime stats. Their feelings are irrelevant.

@GuanYinShanxi The purpose of the assessment is to determine if they are transgender or lying about being transgender.

You may as well ask if the purpose of an assessment is to determine if someone is transspecies, or lying about being transspecies. i.e. if someone is a 'true' trans horse, or just lying about really, really being a horse. We know (like we do with sex) that a human being does not change sex or species. Even if they are really sad, or disturbed.

It's is denial of biological reality. You can state you are something which you are not. It does not make it anything other than a fiction. To the detriment of women and children, the powers that be are enabling this fiction.

I've always been tempted to suspect most of these men probably wouldn't identify as trans outside of prison - so in a sense they're not "real trans people", but it still goes to show how open self-ID is to abuse.

But then this paper I was introduced to yesterday claims "up to 20% of individuals with transvestic fetishism also had been involved in the sexual molestation of children" suggesting there may genuinely be an inflated rate of CSA even amongst "ordinary" trans people.

I think what they do is try to separate the men who are genuinely pretending to be women from those who are pretending to pretend to be women.

I'd like to see the procedure they use for determining whether someone's pretence to be someone they are not is genuine.

The purpose of the assessment is to determine if they are transgender or lying about being transgender.

And how can they do that exactly? How is man A who has been pretending to be a woman for ten years before getting arrested any different from man B pretending to be a woman for ten days after they've been arrested