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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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Froodwithatowel · 16/09/2023 12:02

It needs to be remembered that rape has been pretty much decriminalised. One rape is not likely to get you into court, never mind into prison.

A man in prison for serious sex offending has offended multiple times, to a very serious level, likely to have involved serious injury, threat to kill, or having involved a vulnerable population such as children.

Someone who's committed this serious a crime multiple times isn't a victim of being a bit easy to recognise. But they are benefitting from people frantic to try and find excuses for them.

Waitwhat23 · 16/09/2023 12:01

It's been quite astonishing, given that posters on this board habitually back up every assertation with links and evidence, to see posters refuse to do the same.

'Because I said so' doesn't work here.

GuanYinShanxi · 16/09/2023 12:00

OldCrone · 16/09/2023 10:54

The % sex offenders among convicts could be high because transwomen do not murder as often as men (for example).

Evidence?

It’s a hypothetical.

RebelliousCow · 16/09/2023 12:00

GuanYinShanxi · 16/09/2023 10:32

Yes that is my informed opinion. I said it is socialisation that causes men to be more violent than women. There was no instance of me ever saying or implying that “men are no more violent than women”

OldCrone has misunderstood my assertion.

If it was just a matter of socialisation, then all males in a certain type of society would behave in the same way. They don't. The reason for that is that there is an inter-play between the biological/physical, the emotional/ psychological and the social, in all of us. They cannot be separated.

None of this undermines the fact that males ( as a population) have a greater propensity for sexual/ violence/paraphilia/fetish than women.

OP posts:
GuanYinShanxi · 16/09/2023 11:59

RebelliousCow · 16/09/2023 11:53

None of us here are new to the terms matriarchy and patriarchy - though I suspect that you are.

334bu explicitly admitted they were were unaware of how matriarchal societies are not simply the exact opposite of a patriarchal society.

Signalbox · 16/09/2023 11:58

DuesToTheDirt · 16/09/2023 11:32

There is a third potential factor in the high rates of TW imprisoned for sexual offences.

If someone commits a sex crime that doesn't result in murder, there is a witness (or witnesses) - the victim. If that victim gives a description, then a description of the offender as 'male, brown-haired, mid-height' would be next to useless, where as a description of 'man dressed as a woman, brown wig, mid height' would narrow down the search pool considerably.

So if 1% of men commit sex crimes, maybe 10% of those get caught, and if 1% of transwomen commit sex crimes, maybe 80% of them get caught. This wouldn't apply for crimes such as theft if there are no witnesses.

I have no idea if this is actually the case, I'm just musing.

So TW are more likely to get caught due to them being more identifiable than the average man?

I suppose that could potentially be a factor in terms of finding the assailant if it was a stranger attack. But only in those cases where someone is “trans” before they are convicted and only in those cases where the assailant wasn’t previously known to the victim. I can’t see it making a massive difference.

Froodwithatowel · 16/09/2023 11:55

Unfortunately, the known decades of data on paraphilia clusters are probably relevant here.

It makes no difference. Anyone who says they are trans are trans, anyone who has those feelings at any time is trans, that is the rule. There is no 'true trans' or 'false trans' which means inevitably there is a vast diverse spectrum in the population from 'felt like this from early toddlerhood' to 'late adult transition out of the blue' to 'sexual interest escalating over time' to 'it's useful in the moment for an agenda'. The bottom line is: this population not only does contain sex offenders, to whom presenting as a woman gives access to their victims; an unusual amount of this population would appear to be sex offenders.

It confirms how unreasonable it is therefore to enforce this population's right to be with and use women in a state of vulnerability and undress, over and above the women's right to privacy, dignity, consent and to be regarded as equal humans as opposed to walking male therapy resources, upto and including sex aids. As with the prison situation, the whole leverage of 'you must not say no to these multiple very serious serial rapist males torturing women in prisons because what if, because of a blanket policy, you said no to some poor mythical fraudulent, gentle souled accountant TW?' is just to destroy women's equality or humanity against the needs of men to use them.

Sod that. If women wish to go and strip off in third spaces to validate male people or because they do not care where they undress, then more power to them. Go for it. Those women are consenting, their bodies and their choices. But women who do not consent to this are not any lesser in importance to the male people stamping their feet because they don't want the consenting women, damnit. They want to control and abuse and dominate the women who say no to them and make it clear who's boss.

Which confirms any further if you had any doubt that these male people are not in any kind of good faith and should have heard 'not on your bloody nelly mate' a hell of a lot earlier.

But it's all irrelevant anyway, because even if every single TQ+ identified male was proven beyond all doubt to be a gorgeous, gentle, caring individual who was absolutely safe for women to undress alongside.... the fact would still stand that some women cannot use that space with any male, lovely or otherwise, and that male is excluding them from anything at all to meet their own need for freedom of choice - and that prioritises male choice and freedom over female access and inclusion. Male supremacism. Absolutely unjustifiable exclusion and subordination of women for male benefit, and those women are tax payers, so NO male people can use female single sex spaces at all. End of. This can't happen. The first job of women's spaces is to be accessible to all women.

And anyway, if that male person actually was lovely, they would care about 'other' vulnerable women with inclusion and access needs as they would see it, and wouldn't selfishly exclude them by seeing their own wishes and needs as more important.

RebelliousCow · 16/09/2023 11:53

GuanYinShanxi · 16/09/2023 10:20

Sorry you are new to the terms patriarchy and matriarchy. I’d love to discuss the differences and complexities of various examples but that would be a derail of the thread. If you start a new thread, it would be fun to go over the many historical examples and their similarities and differences.

None of us here are new to the terms matriarchy and patriarchy - though I suspect that you are.

OP posts:
DuesToTheDirt · 16/09/2023 11:50

OldCrone · 16/09/2023 11:41

Most of these males only seem to discover their inner womanliness after getting caught, @DuesToTheDirt, so that wouldn't really apply.

Oh I know, I'm talking about the ones who are already dressed as women. There are plenty of those.

RebelliousCow · 16/09/2023 11:49

GuanYinShanxi · 16/09/2023 11:01

Again this is % of convicts. It’s a poor data point and further research needs to be done.

You mean in the same way that " more research needs to be done" when it comes to males in women's sports?

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 16/09/2023 11:48

Worth remembering that the data set for trans /sex offenders is completely screwed because of all the useful idiots in the Home Office / MoJ mis sexing numerous male offenders as women.

RebelliousCow · 16/09/2023 11:48

GuanYinShanxi · 16/09/2023 10:17

@RebelliousCow
You cannot pick and choose which violence you think is inherent, and which you think is not because it doesn't suit your ideological framework.

Human instincts have been well studied and documented, and they are very few in number. Self-preservation is one such instinct that can lead to violence of a self defence nature. There aren’t really any instincts that compel humans to attack other humans that are not of an immediate threat to them. There is no instinct that compels men to rape women and girls. This is scientific fact.

Edited

'Threat' exists on many levels, including the psychological and emotional level. Some people are more more prone react with physical violence to psychological or emotional threat. 'Threat' is perceived on many levels.

Likewise, women don't have to feel immediate physical threat to feel a degree of psychological/instinctive threat and discomfort with males in their spaces.

OP posts:
OldCrone · 16/09/2023 11:41

Most of these males only seem to discover their inner womanliness after getting caught, @DuesToTheDirt, so that wouldn't really apply.

DuesToTheDirt · 16/09/2023 11:32

Signalbox · 16/09/2023 10:33

Yes I agree that for many of these prisoners they are "fake" trans as in "men who are pretending to pretend to be women" (as pp put it). Trans activists hate the idea of this because according to their narrative nobody would ever pretend to be trans but the alternative is that TW are more likely to be sex offenders. I don't really care which of these is true. I suspect it's a bit of a mixture of the two tbh but how you can ever prove it is beyond me because there is no objective test of who is "true" trans.

There is a third potential factor in the high rates of TW imprisoned for sexual offences.

If someone commits a sex crime that doesn't result in murder, there is a witness (or witnesses) - the victim. If that victim gives a description, then a description of the offender as 'male, brown-haired, mid-height' would be next to useless, where as a description of 'man dressed as a woman, brown wig, mid height' would narrow down the search pool considerably.

So if 1% of men commit sex crimes, maybe 10% of those get caught, and if 1% of transwomen commit sex crimes, maybe 80% of them get caught. This wouldn't apply for crimes such as theft if there are no witnesses.

I have no idea if this is actually the case, I'm just musing.

Signalbox · 16/09/2023 11:18

I'm trying to find the data on how many men who claim to be women are convicted murderers in Eng/Wales prisons and cannot find any information. GuanYinShanxi it would be really helpful if you could share this info.

OldCrone · 16/09/2023 11:06

GuanYinShanxi · 16/09/2023 10:59

It’s maths.
The statistic is % of convicts.
If you have a demographic that isn’t murdering, then their % convicts for every other crime is going to be higher than the % for men because, unlike men, they have no or hardly any murderers.

That’s why it’s a poor statistic and is a departure from the usual measure of offending rates which are calculated as a % of whole population.

I still have no idea what you're talking about. What does the '90% of the murderers' refer to? Where does this figure come from?

Signalbox · 16/09/2023 11:03

GuanYinShanxi · 16/09/2023 11:00

No, this is basic maths. It’s a hypothetical example, but one that is probably true. How many transwomen have been convicted of murder?

I have no idea. Where are you getting your data from on this to do the basic maths?

Throwncrumbs · 16/09/2023 11:03

334bu · 15/09/2023 08:57

Identifying as women just to get preferential treatment doesn't explain why so many are sex offenders. Is there a similar number of sex offenders in those prisoners changing religion to get better food,?

Because they don’t identify as transgender until they are caught and imprisoned.

GuanYinShanxi · 16/09/2023 11:01

Signalbox · 16/09/2023 10:57

A couple of years out of date now but gives an idea. Those who claim to be TW are far more likely than other men to be sex offenders.

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

Again this is % of convicts. It’s a poor data point and further research needs to be done.

GuanYinShanxi · 16/09/2023 11:01

OldCrone · 16/09/2023 11:00

I agree with @Soontobe60.

And I was using 'influence' to mean that the affect on behaviour is significant. So I disagree with you that it's unimportant.

Thank you for the clarification.

GuanYinShanxi · 16/09/2023 11:00

Signalbox · 16/09/2023 10:58

Lol in your dreams.

No, this is basic maths. It’s a hypothetical example, but one that is probably true. How many transwomen have been convicted of murder?

OldCrone · 16/09/2023 11:00

GuanYinShanxi · 16/09/2023 10:57

I was disagreeing with this statement:
Sex hormones and hormone fluctuations play a very important part in people’s behaviours. by soontobe60

My response to her was
No they don’t play an important part at all in our behaviours.

Please tell me which statement you agree with, or whether you have a different third opinion. By the way “influence” implies that hormones have an unimportant part to play in affecting behaviour.

I agree with @Soontobe60.

And I was using 'influence' to mean that the affect on behaviour is significant. So I disagree with you that it's unimportant.

GuanYinShanxi · 16/09/2023 10:59

OldCrone · 16/09/2023 10:55

Men having 90% of the murderers is going to make any other offence % of convicts very very small.

What do you mean by this?

It’s maths.
The statistic is % of convicts.
If you have a demographic that isn’t murdering, then their % convicts for every other crime is going to be higher than the % for men because, unlike men, they have no or hardly any murderers.

That’s why it’s a poor statistic and is a departure from the usual measure of offending rates which are calculated as a % of whole population.

Signalbox · 16/09/2023 10:58

OldCrone · 16/09/2023 10:54

The % sex offenders among convicts could be high because transwomen do not murder as often as men (for example).

Evidence?

Lol in your dreams.

OldCrone · 16/09/2023 10:58

334bu · 16/09/2023 10:54

https://torontosun.com/news/national/study-finds-nearly-45-of-trans-women-inmates-convicted-of-sex-crimes

So what is the explanation for the number of transwoman prisoners being sex offenders? Is there a link between violent behaviour towards children and women and the desire of the man to be accepted as a woman?

Do 'transwomen' in prison in Canada automatically go to a women's prison?

That would be an obvious answer to their question of why so many 'transwomen' are sex offenders. They're not very bright if they can't figure that one out.