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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Amanda Abbington and Strictly.

468 replies

PriamFarrl · 06/08/2023 23:41

I never watch Strictly, but it seems that her being on it is causing some conflict.

I did a quick look but couldn’t see a thread.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/tv/strictly-come-dancing-fans-divided-27466760?fbclid=IwAR1iNqoQHvU6tlsap3W1iWz7oG81Sp0Qimp81rzzd5XAU9fB4NLm_LgE47w_aem_AWkW94vOg0i7vw4ncasDUMNwbDACoxFIhz_Dsisy4LT9Nv0k-aEB-k7pqbT5hptMzeU#ll00z8fhy5yfgk5qz3

Strictly Come Dancing fans divided as some say they will be avoiding 2023 series

"I’m alright thanks, pal"

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/tv/strictly-come-dancing-fans-divided-27466760?fbclid=IwAR1iNqoQHvU6tlsap3W1iWz7oG81Sp0Qimp81rzzd5XAU9fB4NLm_LgE47w_aem_AWkW94vOg0i7vw4ncasDUMNwbDACoxFIhz_Dsisy4LT9Nv0k-aEB-k7pqbT5hptMzeU#ll00z8fhy5yfgk5qz3

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Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 01:02

HazardLights · 02/10/2024 00:33

He’s in the position of power here, it’s hard to choose a response in the moment, particularly when it’s sexual comments.

I find this from the Mail article horrendous:

According to those close to him, Ms Abbington enjoyed the 'banter' and the BBC did confirm that while it was inappropriate behaviour for the workplace, they were to be made and received as jokes, humour and compliments of Ms Abbington's dancing. The review found it was a two-way, consensual way of talking and behaving.

’Two way’ and ‘consensual.’ They’re a step away of saying ‘she liked it.’ Ugh.

TBF if she joined in the banter, and didn't say at the time that she was uncomfortable with it, then how was he supposed to know to back off?

I regularly deal with employees who have taken horseplay way too far. However, if they don't immediately object, it's difficult to see in hindsight how they were offended.

HazardLights · 02/10/2024 00:33

Lookingatthesunset · 01/10/2024 21:43

It all depends on context - some of this could have been banter between them. I wonder what she said in response to these comments? Did she tell them at the time she found them offensive? Or did she respond in kind?

He’s in the position of power here, it’s hard to choose a response in the moment, particularly when it’s sexual comments.

I find this from the Mail article horrendous:

According to those close to him, Ms Abbington enjoyed the 'banter' and the BBC did confirm that while it was inappropriate behaviour for the workplace, they were to be made and received as jokes, humour and compliments of Ms Abbington's dancing. The review found it was a two-way, consensual way of talking and behaving.

’Two way’ and ‘consensual.’ They’re a step away of saying ‘she liked it.’ Ugh.

WiImaDickshow · 02/10/2024 00:24

His own crotch, yes.

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 00:20

LucyandLudwig · 02/10/2024 00:20

Yes he said that to AA about her daughter.

That wasn't in the report though was it?

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 00:20

Datun · 01/10/2024 23:56

'[that's so good] I want to fuck you now.'
and a crotch grab.

does that mean he actually grabbed her crotch?

His own crotch, as I understand it.

LucyandLudwig · 02/10/2024 00:20

OutOfSyncWithReality · 01/10/2024 23:40

Did he say that to AA?

Yes he said that to AA about her daughter.

Datun · 01/10/2024 23:56

'[that's so good] I want to fuck you now.'
and a crotch grab.

does that mean he actually grabbed her crotch?

WiImaDickshow · 01/10/2024 23:51

They are in the Mail, which Gio has been leaking to all year (Amanda was leaking to the Sun).They are all being quoted in speech marks as direct things he said. He genuinely doesn't see any issue with them I don't think.
All I've done is substitute the asterisks and put the fucking you statement into context [it was praise, who knew?!]

OutOfSyncWithReality · 01/10/2024 23:41

WiImaDickshow · 01/10/2024 23:28

'I'm tired of it, if you want to look shit I don't care.'
'You have such talent and you're not using it.'
'I don't know how to ask you anymore.'
'It has been four days now and I don't know what to do.'
'Fucker.'
'[that's so good] I want to fuck you now.'
and a crotch grab.

However, those comments under the line, fuck me.
Do any of them watch the show?
You cannot watch Amanda's salsa and accuse her of not trying hard enough, being weak, a snowflake or not cutting it. She worked like a trojan to achieve that standard in a week.

I would have been like Michelle Visage and given it straight back. Although she said she needed a slave-driver and they had a love-hate relationship (to the extent she allegedly advocated/supported him in the investigation) there were stories at the time they weren't getting along/were arguing a lot. If someone said "fucker" to me, I'd be calling them a wanker and yes, I will look shit on Saturday fuck you very much. It appears that Amanda placated/took it/apologised all the time/took the blame.

If I said three of his statements above - even in adult education - I'd have to resign/I'd be fired.

Are these actual quotes?

OutOfSyncWithReality · 01/10/2024 23:40

LucyandLudwig · 01/10/2024 13:08

I am a long time lurker, but need to share this.

I have a friend who has a v reliable inside source and apparently Giovanni made lots of sexual comments all the time - after meeting Amanda's teenage daughter he said 'yes I'd fuck her' and many other comments like this. Really horrible all round.

Did he say that to AA?

Lookingatthesunset · 01/10/2024 23:36

WiImaDickshow · 01/10/2024 23:28

'I'm tired of it, if you want to look shit I don't care.'
'You have such talent and you're not using it.'
'I don't know how to ask you anymore.'
'It has been four days now and I don't know what to do.'
'Fucker.'
'[that's so good] I want to fuck you now.'
and a crotch grab.

However, those comments under the line, fuck me.
Do any of them watch the show?
You cannot watch Amanda's salsa and accuse her of not trying hard enough, being weak, a snowflake or not cutting it. She worked like a trojan to achieve that standard in a week.

I would have been like Michelle Visage and given it straight back. Although she said she needed a slave-driver and they had a love-hate relationship (to the extent she allegedly advocated/supported him in the investigation) there were stories at the time they weren't getting along/were arguing a lot. If someone said "fucker" to me, I'd be calling them a wanker and yes, I will look shit on Saturday fuck you very much. It appears that Amanda placated/took it/apologised all the time/took the blame.

If I said three of his statements above - even in adult education - I'd have to resign/I'd be fired.

The last two are beyond the pale - the others maybe not quite so much?

I know there were rumours they weren't getting on but no idea what happened/didn't happen at the time.

WiImaDickshow · 01/10/2024 23:28

'I'm tired of it, if you want to look shit I don't care.'
'You have such talent and you're not using it.'
'I don't know how to ask you anymore.'
'It has been four days now and I don't know what to do.'
'Fucker.'
'[that's so good] I want to fuck you now.'
and a crotch grab.

However, those comments under the line, fuck me.
Do any of them watch the show?
You cannot watch Amanda's salsa and accuse her of not trying hard enough, being weak, a snowflake or not cutting it. She worked like a trojan to achieve that standard in a week.

I would have been like Michelle Visage and given it straight back. Although she said she needed a slave-driver and they had a love-hate relationship (to the extent she allegedly advocated/supported him in the investigation) there were stories at the time they weren't getting along/were arguing a lot. If someone said "fucker" to me, I'd be calling them a wanker and yes, I will look shit on Saturday fuck you very much. It appears that Amanda placated/took it/apologised all the time/took the blame.

If I said three of his statements above - even in adult education - I'd have to resign/I'd be fired.

applejackson · 01/10/2024 23:13

Lookingatthesunset · 01/10/2024 21:43

It all depends on context - some of this could have been banter between them. I wonder what she said in response to these comments? Did she tell them at the time she found them offensive? Or did she respond in kind?

It's been reported that Amanda repeatedly complained about G's behaviour during regular meetings with producers and that he would say he would change but then by the end of the week it would be toxic again. It does sound like he tried but that he doesn't do well under pressure.

Lookingatthesunset · 01/10/2024 21:43

It all depends on context - some of this could have been banter between them. I wonder what she said in response to these comments? Did she tell them at the time she found them offensive? Or did she respond in kind?

LucyandLudwig · 01/10/2024 13:08

I am a long time lurker, but need to share this.

I have a friend who has a v reliable inside source and apparently Giovanni made lots of sexual comments all the time - after meeting Amanda's teenage daughter he said 'yes I'd fuck her' and many other comments like this. Really horrible all round.

MarkWithaC · 01/10/2024 12:00

Karmaisagod · 01/10/2024 11:31

Have any of you found confirmation of exactly what accusations they've accepted and rejected?

The Beeb hasn't given full details, but GP in his statement says, 'none of the serious allegations have been upheld'.
And the Beeb don't give full details, but say: 'There were a number of complaints under our bullying and harassment policy, and a number of those complaints have been upheld.'
So, as the article here says, no physical harassment or aggression.
As an aside, it is debatable IMO whether that's the most or only 'serious' thing one could do or be found guilty of in this context.

Karmaisagod · 01/10/2024 11:31

Have any of you found confirmation of exactly what accusations they've accepted and rejected?

applejackson · 30/09/2024 23:57

And yet, the BBC have apparently told Strictly's Italian sister show that Giovanni is safe to work on it. Hard to know what to make of that if he has been shown to be a bully, even if not a violent one. Unless he really did just swear a few times. It doesn't sound like that was all it was though.

IwantToRetire · 30/09/2024 17:15

BBC apologises to Abbington but her claims only partly upheld

BBC News has been told that while complaints of verbal bullying and harassment were upheld, claims of physical aggression were not.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce81p7w6xggo

Amanda Abbington in a pink and blue sequinned gown, dancing with Giovanni Pernice, who is wearing a black and silver shirt

BBC apologises to Amanda Abbington over Strictly verbal bullying by Giovanni Pernice, but he is cleared of physical aggression

But BBC News understands that Giovanni Pernice has been cleared of the most serious claims of physical aggression.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce81p7w6xggo

Datun · 26/07/2024 10:39

One of the main strands was always what a happy family it is, what an amazing experience everyone has, how supportive they all were.

The BBC needs to bloody well step up, because after that interview, nothing could sound more hollow.

It is they who are ruining the reputation of Strictly.

MarkWithaC · 26/07/2024 10:10

RoyalCorgi · 26/07/2024 09:27

At any rate, the fact it's being withheld is very telling. It feels like an admission of guilt to me.

It does, doesn't it? What we need is for someone at the BBC to leak the footage.

I get very enraged by all those people who insist that Amanda somehow just couldn't cope with demanding training methods - even though they weren't there so had no idea what went on. Even though they themselves probably couldn't last a day under a demanding training regime. Ann Widdecombe wrote a nasty little piece in the Mail attacking Amanda - yet when she was on Strictly and proved herself a crap dancer, she didn't put any effort into working hard to improve, just accepted her role as the comedy competitor.

And doesn't Amanda have ballet training, albeit I think from her youth? That is notoriously tough and demanding, so I can't imagine she's any stranger to working hard in dance training.

MarkWithaC · 26/07/2024 10:06

Zita60 · 26/07/2024 09:51

Part of that was because Layton had danced professionally for many years, including in the West End. It was thought to be very unfair to the other contestants. There was a lot of “but he’s never done Ballroom or Latin before” from his supporters, but professional experience in one type of dance means that picking up other styles is much easier.

Outright hatred is wrong, but there was also politely expressed criticism of the BBC for inviting him to take part, and of him for accepting the invitation.

I obviously abhor the personal attacks on Layton for being gay/wearing drag etc.
But I did think his dance experience crossed the line of what is fair/acceptable to be on Strictly. I also thought the narrative (started by him and Nikita, I think?) of 'Laytonising Strictly' was misjudged and wrong. The joy of Strictly has always been seeing people fall under its spell, not the other way round, and it came off as rather arrogant.

Zita60 · 26/07/2024 09:51

quiteathome · 25/07/2024 17:31

Layton got a lot of hate as well. I don't really know what happened last year with the Strictly fan base.

Part of that was because Layton had danced professionally for many years, including in the West End. It was thought to be very unfair to the other contestants. There was a lot of “but he’s never done Ballroom or Latin before” from his supporters, but professional experience in one type of dance means that picking up other styles is much easier.

Outright hatred is wrong, but there was also politely expressed criticism of the BBC for inviting him to take part, and of him for accepting the invitation.