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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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NecessaryScene · 18/07/2023 07:36

AP article no better.

https://apnews.com/article/zambia-banda-womens-world-cup-79520a0f06bf1c91a18fbeacfdd2fbec

Seems to have a baked-in assumption that anyone being excluded from a woman's sport is "mistreatment" or a "flaw".

Although there is a point in there about lack of clarity/consistency on rules. FIFA and football generally indeed worse than other sports which are at least more solid, whether or not they're being fair to women.

But yes, there should be zero trust here. The press has had hundreds of opportunities to admit Semenya is male, and haven't, so Occam's Razor says that any woman with "naturally high testosterone" is also being excluded for being male. That's what they call men in these situations.

And if they're going to bring up Semenya as a "similar case", then who are we to argue...?

FILE - Brazil's Rafaelle, left, and Zambia's Babra Banda battle for the ball during a women's soccer match at the 2020 Summer Olympics, Tuesday, July 27, 2021, in Saitama, Japan. (AP Photo/Martin Mejia)

A player's mistreatment exposes flawed sex eligibility rules used by FIFA at Women's World Cup

Barbra Banda has been allowed to play for Zambia at the Women's World Cup after one of soccer's best young players was excluded from last year's African championship in a sex eligiblity case mishandled by authorities.

https://apnews.com/article/zambia-banda-womens-world-cup-79520a0f06bf1c91a18fbeacfdd2fbec

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 18/07/2023 07:33

I just assume naturally high testosterone means BB shouldn’t be playing in the women’s game. It’s their way of obfuscating sex.

MissPollysFitDolly · 18/07/2023 07:20

You'd think the African Cup of Nations ban would trigger a FIFA investigation. If whatever caused the African gender ban doesn't breech FIFA rules they should say so. Tongues will be wagging every time Banda comes out to play.

It could have been dealt with so easily now they're just focusing negativity towards the women's game.

NecessaryScene · 18/07/2023 07:04

I've not found anything definite.

My supposition is very likely 5-ARD DSD male like Semenya - we could narrow it down by determining what exactly the rules being breached were.

If it's like the IAAF/World Athletics ones, then just "high testosterone" is not sufficient - there would need to be SRY genes in there. High testosterone might trigger a sex check, but it's not inherently disqualifying, generally. The "testosterone lowering rules" Semenya complains about are actually a provision given to DSD males like transwomen to give them a way to get in to a category they shouldn't really qualify for at all - "you can get in, as long as you lower your testosterone". But real women have no testosterone limit.

As far as I gather FIFA suspended its rules in 2019, and they're reviewing them.

Sources: https://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/fifa-fails-to-remove-gender-verification-rules/
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/21/fifa-to-review-its-gender-eligibility-regulations-in-wake-of-fina-ruling

Which means they're in a similar situation to where athletics was in the early 2010s, where the lack of rules meant a free-for-all flood of 5-ARD athletes,leading to 3 males on the women's podium at the 2016 Olympics 800m.

Anywhere there is lack of sex testing, it's the easiest thing in the world to find some fully-capable 5-ARD males and claim they're "women with high testosterone" and do the song and dance that Semenya did. So likely the case here.

Here it seems some regional bodies are still being stricter than FIFA, but we'd need details.

MrsJamin · 18/07/2023 07:01

Very suspicious tbh. Sounds like another caster semenya case.