Barbra Banda

@Helleofabore

Do you think Tickle Vs Giggle might be the case which, win or lose, forces the Australian public to face up to the fact that there is a clash between women's rights and men's privileges?

The point about censorship is a good one, Australia, NZ and Canada are all like that and it's stymieing progress for the sane side of the argument. Makes you wonder, though, how would this case even be reported? "Woman wins right to inclusion on female-only app"? It would sound bonkers unless you explained that Tickle was male.

Oh and just a note for those getting concerned about ‘genital inspections’ of athletes. I have a friend who volunteers at the Olympics, and was horrified to find out that his job was sitting with athletes after events waiting to watch them pee as part of the drug testing routine. So I guess athletes to get used to all sorts of indignities in order to prove eligibility to compete.

I remember pursuing various internet links a good couple of years ago when there was some other story about Banda, and concluding that yes, it’s another Semenya situation.

The 'woman with naturally high testosterone' line has been incredibly successful in pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes.

As ever, 'inclusive' means 'inclusive of males', because if you include males in a competition for women you will de facto exclude females.

The 'male' is silent, as is so often the case

Don’t forget either that in Australia, if you don’t word your social media just right, you will have your social media post censored in Australia, probably a letter from the commissioner for online safety and maybe a police visit.

This is incredibly concerning how censorious Australia has become.

If indeed there is an unfair advantage going on here, and Zambia do well, it's not likely to be just one player at the next tournament, is it? As seen in athletics at Rio - once the loophole is known then more players with the same advantage will be scouted by teams who think "well if they can do it, so can we".

It is a shame about Giggle and Tickle. But I fear that Sal will not win that case.

If this reawakens public pushback, I will be so pleased. However, I suspect it will be but a blip unless Zambia win. I think that many will just write off the Matildas as not being good enough if they lost to Zambia.

@Helleofabore
Good points. (Sadly.) Quite a lot has happened since Hubbard and Thomas were in the news and I hope the fact that it is football, that it is one more example, may tip public opinion over the edge and push politicians into a rethink. Although if the public have accepted this unfairness in swimming, which they care about so much... It's a shame Tickle Vs Giggle has not yet been adjudicated.

The players get increased sums (tens of thousands up to six figures each) as they progress. Even if Banda and co make it through one or two rounds it means a team of women who have fought their whole lives to get to this point will be screwed out of serious money.

Hubbard and Thomas already are very well known in Australia. All my friends and family know who they are.

The issue at the moment is the Anti-discrimination Act. It is unlikely though with the Albanese government that any change can be pushed through. (I would love someone to tell me that the Act is not going to be an issue.) And at the moment all the media is taken up with debate about the upcoming referendum.

If Zambia make it to the finals, it might reawaken the outrage people felt with Hubbard and Thomas. Otherwise, I am not confident sadly.

It's even simpler, a cheek swab is all that is required to verify female sex.
They don't want to solve what they don't see as a problem.

If Zambia do well...

World media will be covering the story, however coyly, and the truth will come out. This could end up peaking Australia, considering the very strong fairness ethos in the culture.

National federations of countries with a chance of winning will not stand for this, if only because of the stink it will cause back home. Football is huge.

Some female footballers are going to have their commitment to males in women's football tested.

Even though some African media are playing along with the farce, the authorities of the WAfCON can't be gaslit about race, for obvious reasons.

I don't understand why all athletes aren't just asked to give a blood sample and chromosomes tested. Wouldn't this just solve this problem? It would only need to be done once.

Athletes are drug tested, I assume initially urine and then bloods if something shows up? So it isn't as if it's major to have bloods taken.

I was also shocked to read that women had to have their genitals inspected - has a man ever had to do this?

Anyway, perhaps it's about time a country stood up to this. Especially to the awful and corrupt FIFA, perhaps Germany could lead the way and other countries would follow.

The collusion of the press in failing to accurately investigate & report on this is so frustrating. Weak, ineffective and completely at odds with their "neither fear nor favour" mantra.
Challenging the Putins and Trumps of the world but complete capitulation to the men who say they're women lot. Just shows how powerful this lobby is.

Ditto.
The whole farrago pisses me off.

And yes, I am fully aware that Banda most likely has a DSD. My point still stands if Banda says they are a woman, that is all that is needed in Australia legally at the moment.

The other issue is that currently, under the current Sports Australia policy, anyone who feels like a woman or girl can play in a female category of sport. That is due to Julia Gillard’s efforts in having gender written into the Anti-discrimination act after attending Yogyakarta in 2013.

And Kieran Perkins is disappointingly TWAW. Now that was a disappointment to hear, but maybe he is just paying lip service as he is the head of sports and has to follow the law (but I think he is a genuine follower of that mantra).

The latest policy was reaffirming inclusivity not fairness. And it was pointed out that an athlete could take a federation to court in Australia to force their eligibility to play and likely win. it is as yet untested, it will be interesting to see though how many sporting federations will now not do their women’s internationals in Australia because of this. And considering Australia is hosting the 2032 Olympics, this needs to be well sorted by then.

So, if FIFA hasn’t made the policy yet, Australia will be Banda’s haven for this cup.

How can you test gender? Really, when it comes down to it, the authorities making the decisions need to say what they mean - SEX can be determined by genetic testing/etc, so say that!

I read the BBC article yesterday, they were practically falling over themselves to not say what was going on with this person. I agree it's likely another Semenya situation.

The Bbc article really annoyed me as this was a clear example of an issue which is definitely about biological sex and how it affects the body, rather than social or legal or any other aspect of gender (as explained so clearly by the doctor interviewed on inside science). But the bbc article was all about gender testing....

I hope Zambia win the competition and everyone in the world can see the farce for what it is. More sunlight. Perhaps they'll even have to come clean about Caster.

Women can't fail a "woman" test, ergo, this is not a woman. Grossly unfair to all those women playing against this team, the woman who was bumped rom BB's team and BB's team mates who will have to change in front of a non-woman.

Are there any signs that the German side/sport will stand up against it? Their government just blocked self-ID, so I would imagine that they aren't thrilled.

If Barbra Banda (and three other squad members) failed gender verification test that must mean BB is male with a DSD. BB looks very obviously male despite small stature. I am glad that the women's AfCON were having none of it. FIFA need to get their arses in gear or this scandal will overshadow the whole competition.

I found that BBC article more a promotion of Banda than journalism.
Reminded me of the early Caster articles about Caster’s brave struggles for acceptance and so on.

Thanks for starting this thread. Absolutely infuriating that FIFA has allowed this to happen. Huge shadow over the game when it's becoming more and more popular.

Zambia played Germany, one of the top teams in the world, last week and Banda scored two goals by outpacing Germany's defence so dramatically it was clear Banda wasn't the same sex as the other players. Banda was also so over-the-top aggressive when trying to get the ball that it was making the German players visibly uncomfortable.

There is a reason 'she' hasn't been recruited by the WSL/other big Euro leagues.