DM -Italy erases names of gay mothers from birth certs

Because in law knowing who the child is can have legal repercussions

for example you can be made to pay child maintenance if your the biological father
judges may decide how assets are devided on the basis of somone if the father or not

medical treatment

custody

adoption ect

hink I'm arguing that it is reasonable to have the 1 or 2 people who are stepping up and taking legal parental responsibility for the child from birth to be on the birth certificate.

no this is not the purpose of a birth certificate it’s not to validate the people who want to take legal responsibility
it’s to record accurate information about the birth

time date place mother father hospital ect

😂

I'm 100% convinced I'm right in what I'm thinking by the way. Just testing the arguments.

Major missing word there!! I'm NOT 100% convinced I'm right !

No I don't think so.

I think I'm arguing that it is reasonable to have the 1 or 2 people who are stepping up and taking legal parental responsibility for the child from birth to be on the birth certificate.

The register of birth held by the state would always also need to record the mother who gave birth, even in a surrogacy situation, and she would need to legally agree pre-conception if she wanted to not be recorded as a legal parent. This would to prevent stealing of babies or coercive control to hand one over circumventing proper adoption routes.

I'm 100% convinced I'm right in what I'm thinking by the way. Just testing the arguments.

Exactly, do people really think a child who has lesbian parents is not going to realise they can’t have two biological mums? In the UK children born by donor conception have the legal right to information about their donor when they turn 18, so naming a woman’s partner as a parent on the birth certificate does not in anyway prevent them from finding out who their donor is. I can’t see any reason why it would disadvantage a child to have someone who is their parent registered as a parent on the BC, it actually benefits the child as the parent has a financial responsibility to them due to being their legal parent. In the event the birth mother died during labour the parent would also immediately be their guardian, how would this work if they hadn’t adopted them yet? They would have no rights what so ever. Making lesbian parents adopt children provides no advantages or benefits to the child or that family.

Yep - so devastating

Are you arguing against having birth certificates at all?

I agree.
It's not right for the non blood related parent to lose rights to the child in the event of a divorce or death so their rights, and that of their child, need to be protected.
But the birth certificate is about letting the child know what their history is and where they've come from. We have ample evidence of how important this is to the mental health of many young and, indeed, much older people. It's not about the parents feelings, it's about the factual information the child has about their origins.

I agree a child should know who they are.

Why does that need to be on a state document that they have to show at certain times of life, rather than in their personal medical records?

That’s not really relevant to what’s happened in Italy though and what happens in this country, that’s a side topic regarding surrogacy or egg donation. What currently happens is the birth mother is recorded as the birth mother and her partner is recorded as a parent, time and time again people are saying a woman’s female partner or wife has no place on the birth certificate because it lists her as the birth mother or mother and this is a falsehood which has led to TR issues and this is completely incorrect, essentially blaming lesbians for gender and trans rights issues that women face, which is offensive. I and other posters have explained numerous times that this does not happen yet people keep trotting this out as the excuse to support what has happened in Italy, which is driven by homophobia since lesbians can’t even adopt there, so denies them any parental rights over the child they parent.

I mean, it’s complicated- all these additional certificates and forms, but it’s not as complicated as novel forms of conception using donors, etc. The documentation should reflect this complicated reality, not document a false simplicity which is far from the truth.

My child has the possibility of having Huntington’s

I feel your pain

That’s the whole crux of the issue it should work primarily for the child

adopters and fosters carers are child centred

a lot of adults their wants and needs in this case to be recognised should be centred
I am afraid this is how we end up we’re we are currently

its very simple for me coming from a child first view that my need to be recognised should always come

2nd to the truth and my child’s needs to be rooted in who they are I am part of that but children who don’t know who they are have worse outcomes if you talk to children who were adopted 20-30 years ago who were not told they will tell you they always had a feeling that something was off

knowing who you are is fundamental to you
if a child doesn’t know who they are it knocks them off kilter and if they find out at a pivotal moment in their life it change fundamentally change who they are

adults have forgotten we should meet our child’s need they are not here to meet ours no wonder why we have kink in the class room ect

This.

Adoption, the right to be seen as a parent I support with every part of me.

The right of a child to know their genetic parents is a right not a feeling. I have a genetic condition, not knowing my genetic parents (adopted) caused a long and drawn out diagnosis. The birth certificate is the sperm and the ovum record, the building blocks rather than the 'parents'

I think you’ve got this backwards.

Currently, fathers do not need paternity tests to be registered on birth certificates. Because of the nature of human reproduction, registrars take it on faith that the man showing up to register the child’s birth or who is married to the mother is the father. A mother can prove maternity with her medical records a father can’t.

Just because some people choose novel methods of family creation, shouldn’t change how this works for everyone else.

No woman can claim to be a father, because that is not how we reproduce. So that is why it is different for same sex couples.

The only thing for a situation where a non-related woman or man wants to be registered with parental responsibility, should be an additional document, something like an adoption certificate, not the birth certificate.

Stating you are female when you are male is factually incorrect.

Stating you are the birth mother or birth father would be factually incorrect if untrue.
Stating you are taking on the role as one of a maximum of 2 legal parents of the child being registered would not be factually incorrect.

It is all down to the wording on the certificate.

But some people on this thread are suggesting that the birth mother should not always be named on birth certificates.

How many times do I have to keep repeating myself until people stop spouting this incorrect statement as a reason to support this? The partner of the birth mother is not named as a birth mother or any kind of mother, she is named as a parent, the birth mother is recorded as the birth mother.

I think the system used for adoption offers a clearly workable solution that could be used in other areas where the birth / parenting roles don’t match up. Do you think there are any downsides thatgirl1981 to the way this works for adoptive children/ parents?

@Thatgirl1981 so what would you do in the case of donor sperm?

Leave father blank or put the husband/partner of the mother?

I can't see a good reason for naming the partner when he is male (but not bio father) but not when she is female (and not bio father).

Because both are not the biological parents

should I be placed on my adopted a child original birth certificate as the birth mother 🤷🏿‍♂️is so then truth means nothing and men should be able to call themselves women and have a F maker on there birth certificate

Having read the thread, I can see that it is important.

My argument is about Ketzele’s accusation that this thread was filled with “knee jerk homophobia”.

To most people but the egaled eyed they would not spot the difference I no I actually thought they sent the wrong thing at first when I got sent my daughters it’s ment to look the same but it’s notb