DM -Italy erases names of gay mothers from birth certs

The trouble is that the birth certificate has always been a document certifying the circumstances of someone's birth and the people who are going to be the parents now, which is complicated now those two categories don't have to involve exactly the same people anymore. All they need to do is add slightly to the birth certificate, have details of who the biological mother and father (if given) are and then also who the 'actual' parents are, whether that's two mothers, two fathers or whatever. Then the certificate can still fulfill all purposes.

The mother that did not give birth, and actually has no place on the birth certificate, any more than a man who did not contribute his sperm

The letter from the state prosecutor informed them that the inclusion of the name of Michela (who is not the biological mother of their daughter, Giulia) on the birth certificate was 'contrary to public order'. This move means only the recognised biological mother has parenting rights, such as for schooling and healthcare, and if she was to die, her children can be handed to her relatives or taken away into the state's care

this is sad though, surely they can adopt?

I don’t think gay couples are permitted to adopt children in Italy, so putting both partners on the birth certificate is the only way they can both have parental rights over the child. If this is taken away and if something happens to the birth mother, the other parent will have no say in what happens to their child, who could be placed with relatives of the birth mother.

So for a lesbian married couple they would always both be listed as the legal parents.

@DustyLee123 as in, you think a sperm donor’s name should be on it over their actual second parent, the one who will raise them?

Parenting goes beyond gametes. I also think there are probably way more than we think whose father on the birth certificate is not the biological father anyway, so how would your system of lesbian partner erasure help with that?

I think this could all be solved by having 3 spaces for ´mother’ and two for ´father’ that /« should all be filled in.
So genetic mother + father
Gestational mother
Legal parents.
Genetic parents part could contain things like ´donor XYZ registration through X fertility clinic. Genetic father could be left blank if he’s fucked off and left his partner pregnant/was a one night stand and not interested etc - to be filled in if and when a DNA test happens or accepts he is the father for CMS etc.

I'm torn, I thought there would be a birth certificate that belongs to the child to show who their actual biological parents are, and adoption certificate to show who their parents are?

For fucks’ sake. You are condoning the erasing of lesbian mothers from birth certificates? Apply some critical thinking.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12302509/Italy-erases-names-gay-mothers-childrens-birth-certificates-crackdown.html

I’m not sure how I feel about this, actually. I thought, until very recently, that a birth certificate was a factual document which listed either one or both biological parents. Obviously occasionally the father listed might not be the biological dad, either by accident or design, but it hadn’t crossed my mind that it was possible to list a parent who demonstratively was not a biological parent.

I would be interested to know when this change in birth certificates occurred. So many of the “rights” that we are supposed to get up in arms about when they are removed are “rights” that I didn’t even know existed and don’t make much sense to me.

And yes, I absolutely support the rights of lesbian women to be mothers and also for them to be able to adopt the children of their spouse, or for it to be somehow registered that they have full parental rights and so on. I’m just not sure that registration on the birth certificate is the right way to go about it.

And that isn’t because I am anti-lesbian. If a man and woman are together, but they know the man isn’t the child’s biological father, I wouldn’t expect him to be put on the birth certificate. Obviously that’s much more open to abuse, but that doesn’t mean we should change the function of the birth certificate more generally, which appears to have already happened.