Disneyland greeter

It’s the trans flag colours.

That ny post article is utterly pathetic 😂 I can't believe people actually get paid to write these "opinions".

Well he's not exactly David Beckham in a sarong is he...
That aside this is America where the most puritanical attitudes exist - can't see it going well.

Crossdressing is up there as one of the most common fetishes for men. In an environment which is primarily aimed at entertaining children, there should be more consideration.

I saw this story and thought similar. I have no problem with a man in a dress or women in trousers. I don’t care who wears make up or nail varnish. It’s going to depend if it stops there or whether there’s an indoctrination or ideology behind it. That’s where I have a problem.

"The moves come as Disney finds itself ensnared in a culture war in Florida over the state’s “Don’t Say Gay” law. Earlier this year, Disney CEO Bob Chapek declined to speak out against the Florida law, which bans the discussion of gender identity and sexual orientation for kids in kindergarten through third grade."

There's lots of stuff going on behind this situation though which I have no idea about as I have not been following Disney ditches 'fairy godmothers' for gender neutral titles (nypost.com)

We should tell boys it's fine to wear dresses only once loads of the dads are wearing them without comment.
No, we should tell them its fine, so it becomes fine

People have kinks out of the weirdest things. The thing is, you could be turning someone on by walking past them - if you didnt know, then are you offended?

I get that you would feel uncomfortable if you can see it, or if its overt, but can you really thought police people? Obviously if the behaviour was unacceptable, or clothing inappropriate then that not right

It's a lie to tell boys wearing dresses is fine.

It's not, because it's not socially acceptable. And that will have consequences for children, maybe harsher consequences than not wearing the clothes you want.

You may think it should be acceptable or wish it were, but it's not. At least not now or yet.

We should tell boys it's fine to wear dresses only once loads of the dads are wearing them without comment.
Then we'd be telling the truth.
It would then be socially fine. The culture would have changed sufficiently for children to included without repercussions. Let adults decide the agreed boundaries before involving children.

This use of children to try to engineer the norms you think there should be, isn't in the children's interest, it's in the interest of adults who want to create the norms they think there should be. And who believe these new norms they aspire to are morally better, so lying to your child is a sign of your virtue.

Children are pawns in the Trans culture war, but equally pawns in the gender critical belief system, both are lying to children. One about biological reality and the other that social norms are irrelevant to them.

Either way it's all about queering the culture, conveying to children all norms are oppressive, and Disney will convey that message for you to their market of children.

the not they

I think people are being a bit naive if they think a man wouldn’t dress up as a fairy godmother for kink purposes.

Grayson Perry is open about they sexual element of his crossdressing, and this outfit he is wearing wouldn’t look out of place in Disney.

I too don't really see a problem with this. If he said his name was Nicola then I would.

so this is what you originally said. That if he chose to call himself a feminine name you’d take issue with that. Now I called you out on it you’ve changed your mind and suddenly you only have an issue if he identifies as a woman.

perhaps if people like you were more open minded fewer males would need to identify as trans to be able to dress the way they want to. There’s absolutely nothing to suggest this person is trans but you dislike him anyway just in case he might be. That’s transphobic.

i would very much hope he hasn't been forced into that costume as a co-worker is sick! that would be a bit against dignity at work policies. i assume he is happy to wear it.

its the ott make up that makes it look odd, and i thought disney had a very consertavitve policy about make up/ heck even beards and earings (though its lightened up a bit now)

Well you can think that all you like but he can call himself what he likes and dress how he likes and he also has every right to not give a flying fuck whether you have a problem with it or consider it "your business"

He looks great and I hope it helps other people who are rightly becoming increasingly scared (because of people like you OP who posted this) to dress in any way that might be construed as trans or fem.

I agree with you - its no more sexual than a woman in a dress

Fine. Same as its fine for a girl to dress like a superhero

I think it's great that they've let him work in a dress and (barring inappropriate outfits) I want my kids to have examples of both sexes wearing all sorts of clothes, makeup (or no makeup) etc so that they feel free to express themselves however they want to. My brother loved wearing dresses, pink sparkly stuff etc as a child and it was a great shame that he and his school peers didn't have role models to show that it was okay because he felt like he wasn't allowed to once he became aware of social norms. They really need to tailor the employee a dress that fits better though!

It's just a bloke in a disney princess costume.

I mean there are people wandering around dressed as mice FGS.

I wish we would be more open to men wearing dresses if they want without them needing to equate it to being a woman. If you have xy chromosomes and want to wear women's clothing so what. We have a nice chap locally who wears women's clothing but he doesn't pretend that makes him female, he's a well adjusted chap who prefers dresses end of

My thinking is kind of similar to <malagas'.

Males in dresses could be socially normed, for sure. Though designers have tried over recent decades to do that with men in skirts, and it just never took off.

Which makes it difficult to see it when it appears now, at the height of GI madness, to see it as an organic fashion development.

That being said, maybe he just got stuck for the day being a fairy godmother apprentice because his co-worker was out?

But I can see why many Americans would be suspicious, especially with the Disney corporation. They don't really have any goodwill left among a lot of people.

I think that men wearing dresses is more often linked to a 'performance' and a deeply psychological drive often with a sexual element linked to that.

It's not just a fashion choice. It could be, if it was mainstream and normalised over time. That would probably happen through a fashion scene, spilling out into the mainstream over time. It would probably initially have a different take for men and how they wear dresses. It would be experimental, edgy interesting playing with boundaries.

Once it was then normalised and mainstream and accepted as socially acceptable then I'd be ok with men wearing dresses working for Disney.

This instead is obvious top down social engineering, where something that is not yet socially accepted is being forced into spaces for children. Children are being used to try to engineer this change. Show children social norms don't matter is the message. Lots of people think this is a good message. I don't and I don't think most people do.

The view this is just a fashion choice is hugely naïve. It's transgressive of social norms. Deliberately so, and performed for children.

We can claim some social norms are outdated, but that is for society to decide.

I'm fine with fashion students, clubbers, teen-agers in their own time experimenting with fashion and challenging the boundaries and this changing how we view the boundaries. That was happening in the 80s. It was great.

I'm not happy with individuals, at work, choosing to transgress norms which make others uncomfortable, and enforcing this on others.

This idea that there are no 'norms' and the belief, or feeling there should be, is just old fashioned prejudiced, is just queer theory.

That's what this guy is doing and we know it. He's queering Disney deliberately.

All societies have norms, you can't just throw them because a few people decide they're pointless. It has to be by general consent.

Most people are not yet comfortable with men in dresses in most contexts.

I'm not and I wouldn't want this at Disney or in my child's school.
It would confuse children

I'd prefer to see him in a well designed princess costume that suits him. A male fairy godmother outfit? A long skirt to cover socks?

Plenty of boys want to do the glitter of that boutique.

Outfit looks silly on him, with the makeup. Like a parody.

That doesn't mean I don't think they should encourage much more gender fluid costumes for the kids (girls may want to be a Disney prince like Prince Charming) or more appropriate outfits for male greeters (and female greeters who prefer trousers)

I feel it's dangerous to assume that a man in a dress identifies as a woman, as it plays straight into the hands of the gender ideology narrative and reinforces the notion that wearing a dress is inextricably linked to someone's identity, which is exactly what gender ideologues believe.

@LonginesPrime I completely agree. From personal experience, a male acquaintance of mine likes to wear dresses on occasion, last time I saw him at a party he had on a silver sequined frock with a fit that was actually quite flattering for his build. To my knowledge, not once has he ever attempted to identify as a woman, and I feel it would be very wrong to make that assumption.

When you are talking adult men, I do wonder how many of them just innocently like the design.

And not rather, it's precisely because it's women's clothing that they have the interest in it, and if you made it "clothes for everyone" then that would undermine it.

He doesn't seem to be sending up women, like a drag caricature-type thing - he seems to be just genuinely doing his job as a 'fairy godmother's apprentice', so I have no issue with this.

My opinion would change if he's also asserting that he is a biological woman because of his costume, but nothing suggests that in the clip.

I feel it's dangerous to assume that a man in a dress identifies as a woman, as it plays straight into the hands of the gender ideology narrative and reinforces the notion that wearing a dress is inextricably linked to someone's identity, which is exactly what gender ideologues believe.

Also, I think at Disneyland, it's a really great idea to see men in dresses (as long as they're not mocking women like drag queens do) as it helps parents to get more comfortable with the fact their boys might be desperate to wear a princess dress there. If the situation is as presented in the clip (i.e. that men can wear dresses too if they want), then I think that's a big step forward for tackling sexism and ultimately, the sexism inherent in gender ideology.