Would you be concerned... 4 year old "trans"

Same but the other way round: my youngest was at primary school with a boy who had long flowing curls and liked playing with barbies. He'd turn up to parties in the full Disney princess gear - you could see the other boys looking at him in a slightly 'are you sure about that?' kind of way, but obviously the girls all thought it was great. It was particularly impressive because he was a stocky wee chap whose dad was an equally stocky builder, but nobody really batted an eye and everybody just got on with their lives. And actually I think it was really good for the kids to see that it's not toys or clothes that make someone a boy or a girl.

He carried on being slightly camp well into secondary, and then at some point it gradually faded away. Apparently he's in a realtionship with a girl, so it really was just a childhood preference with no lasting significance in terms of sexual orientation or gender identity.

When my son was 4 he liked wearing fairy princess dresses, playing with dolls and such. I encouraged him as I wanted him to be a good father one day!

One day he said "mummy I want to be a girl!" And we were totally shocked and stunned. I gently asked "why is that my darling?" And he replied "I want a baby in my tummy!" And again I asked him why and he said "I want a baby sister". To which we smiled and explained that it was lovely he wanted a sister and took the opportunity to explain about reproduction (in very basic terms).

About a year later I conceived a girl and he was over the moon!

My son is 19 years old now and has a girlfriend who he is planning to live with later this year.

And indeed, they are planning children in the future and I have no doubt he will be a fantastic father!

I can very well imagine that a similar conversation took place with this child but instead of finding out a bit more, this mother transed the child!

Serious child abuse in my opinion.

They don't need coaxing! Sparkles are eye-catching and appealing to children. Kids will see the sparkly clothes (eg when accompanying their parents shopping in a big supermarket with a clothes section) and will ask for them.

This appeal / pester power definitely works. I worked in H&M's warehouse for a while and noticed that they're capitalising on on it by offering sequinned tops in lots of "boy coded" designs - ninja Lego, sharks, T-rex, gaming. These were very popular!

Parents just need to accept that their sons can naturally like glitter, sparkles, pink, purple, rainbows, unicorns, dolphins, horses, frills, or whatever and that it doesn't make them a girl. It doesn't make them need medical treatment or social transitioning. Let them be a boy who likes glitter.

Of course it's damaging to a child, telling them they can in fact be a girl when they can't for one- and secondly because it's perfectly natural and normal for young children to not have a grasp of regressive gender stereotypes and to just like what they like; including boys and pink/sparkly tops. A much more important message is cool you can wear what you like it doesn't define who you are, but no we are in this weird place where these normal phases are turned into something life changing and scary.

Throughout primary DS went to school with a child who dressed like a boy and played with the boys. She had a unisex nickname based her full name. The girl had decided around age two that she preferred to wear boys clothes, in primary she was sporty and liked to play football with the boys along with another girl.
She was a Tom boy, was a girl who was one of the boys. Her parents just let her be, she wasn’t medicalised or told she was actually male.
Within a week of starting secondary school she shook of her tom boy image.
Her parents took such a sensible approach, it’s a shame that the parents of the five year old can’t do the same and need to push their child into the trans box.

WhiteFire
I think this particular mother fitted into another category, they have sons and being the super right on parents not just allow their children to have a range and choice of toys and clothes but also actively steer the child towards the traditional girly sparkly stuff, which being colourful and sparkly and swishy etc is the top choice. The child starts school, peers then tell the child that xyz is for girls, child preferring xyz decide that this means they are actually a girl. Parents being right on embrace this and immediately start a social transition.

I have seen exactly this situation play out. In then case I know about the mother did this and the father was of the TERF mindset (a genuinely feminist ally man). He did all sorts of mental gymnastics, aided and abetted by this stupidity on all sides and went along with it all after initially coming to me for advice, terrified. Like a sort of Stockholm syndrome as he had to go along with things or not be able to see his child (parents separated, 50:50 care).
It was so fucking obvious the child didn't even have gender dysphoria, didn't dislike their body. Even referred to themselves as their sex "who likes [things thought of as for the opposite sex]". Would have been dead easy to tell the truth to them. Such thicko parents. Mother also v invested in seeing herself as a "good mum" after other issues, which didn't help I'm sure. Makes me sick thinking what they've done.

Haven't read the full thread but I'd be very concerned. A male teen in our family went through a stage at fourteen of acting and dressing in a very feminine way, wearing make-up, all female social group, stereotypically feminine hobby. We were fairly certain he would eventually come out as gay, and there was thought given to him being trans but his parents and the family simply stood back and gently supported him in exploring himself. They didn't actively encourage or discourage anything.

10 years on he's had a girlfriend for 2 years and is a lad's lad in a very masculine work place. As with many kids his phase was just a phase of exploration and nothing more than that.

Its terrifying that these natural explorations are being jumped on and magnified by parents into something huge and damaging. Where did we lose the concept that it's just ok for people to like whatever they like, without it meaning they're obviously in the wrong body

Wearing a dress is wearing a dress.
Clothes do not make someone the opposite sex.

My little bro wanted from 4 onwards to wear dresses for mufti at school. My parents never let him. As a teen he would sneak out, dress up and wear makeup. As soon as he left school and moved to London, he wears dresses etc as much as he can (works for government and still a little stuffy about that in the House of Commons!), is bisexual and seeing a person transitioning to be a man. If it is meant to be it will be - pushing either way will likely not stick if it is truly who they are

Same with my son, he was 21 yesterday and we we're looking at old photos.. so many of him dressed up like a princess and I used to think maybe he'd be gay.. he still has a very camp sense of humour (think David walliams) but is straight and has had several girlfriends. I can't imagine how he would have answered at age 5 if I'd brought up transitioning.

Unfortunately I don't have the answers. I know from experience that if the top people refuse to see a safeguarding risk, they will hound and ignore those pointing it out. Right up until the point where something horrific happens, then they might try to pin it on the very people who tried to prevent it.

And I don't know the answer, because having been in that situation numerous times no one ever listens to you pointing out perfectly reasonable safeguarding concerns, no matter what facts or tone you use. For myself it doesn't help that I am neurodiverse and get very angry very quickly when people refuse to protect children because they're selfish or downright dangerous. It makes you enemies and again no one listens to you.

This is a weird situation as well because there are absolutely no official channels to turn for safeguarding concerns as everyone is dancing along to the same tune like the pied Piper. They'll be quick to place blame when the extent of the harm can no longer be hidden though.

actually @DobbysTeaCosy I re-read your post and apologise!! I get so upset by this at times. But I can see you were not advising staying quiet, but speaking about most effective way to help. Sometimes I wish there were a delete button on mumsnet.

@DobbysTeaCosy and that is why the stupidity perpetuates and very young children all the way up to the young adults are being catastrophically harmed. All it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing. Those who can speak, must speak. I believe people who understand that sex is real are still in the majority.

Whilst I agree in theory in practice speaking out can effect your relationships, job and in some cases, safety.
I'd only ever bring it up myself from a very matter of fact child development point, as I have some very stupid friends who are too dense to discuss it beyond #bekind and I save my energy and credibility for when it will matter most (have a relative being socially transed and it's most upsetting, but have to tread carefully as mother cuts off people for being terfs. Want to make sure she has some sane people around to help row back and not just cheerleading in an echo chamber)
It's hard. The mechanisms I have relied on for other safeguarding concerns are completely blind or broken in this case. I've seen this before with other safeguarding matters and what usually happens is when the shit hits the fan the lower level people are blamed. Like in ops case, the mother will be blamed, teachers etc. Those who should be overseeing safeguarding are shielded from responsibility.

I'd speak up, say my mind. I don't want to support child-abuse in silence.

In a few years " but why didn't you say something? " will be heard a lot. So the silent ones better speak up or prepare a good answer to that question.

Perhaps more boys should be encouraged to wear glitter and unicorn t-shirts. If we reclaim gender neutrality, don't we take away some of their power?

It happens with every generation. Which is why, older people, adults, need to guide and not go along with nonsense.

Ths really worries me as well - maybe it's already happening.

I’m totally for not “transitioning” children but thinking there is something wrong with boys having access to sparkly clothes is where the problem starts. Buy your boy children as many shiny t shirts with glitter as they want and all the colours of nail varnish they want if they want - and why wouldn’t they it’s shiny and colourful and fun. None of that makes them less a boy. Boys can like shiny sparkly things and still be boys. Girls can like brown and black and cars and power tools and they are still girls. What you like to wear and play with as a child had nothing at all to do with what gender you are:

This ex Gender clinic doctor called it Transhausens by Proxy.

There’s no such thing as “trans children” only parents who are suffering from Munchausens Syndrome by Proxy.
I’d love to know how some of these fools would treat this child. 👇

I think the longer this muddle goes on, the chances are increasing that more ordinary young parents who just aren't familiar with normal childhood development and have been indoctrinated with "kindness" from schools and universities sweep their children up into this.

What a mess.

I think at that age children just like shiny things. Girls don’t have the monopoly on that. It’s just the sad minds of some adults reading into it far more than they should.

When these 4 or 5 year old, ' only ' children, dress up in sparkly clothes, where are they getting the sparkly clothes from exactly? If they are ' only ' children, the parents must be buying them deliberately to coax the kids into wearing them surely because it's not the sort of thing you just keep in, just in case, is it? It's not like having a few candles in, just in case there's a power cut, or a spare tin of soup in case you can't get out.
Transhausens!
In a sane world, social services, Dr's, etc., would be marking the cards of those parents very sternly.

This. This is the scary thing.