Would you be concerned... 4 year old "trans"

Sorry but no kid 'is born in the wrong body.......... kids need to be left to grow up in peace: trans ideology is damaging them.

Could he be empathising so much with you, loving you and granny so much, and identifying with you both so much that he wants to be like you, and as close as possible to you?

He must also be extremely clever, super sensitive and imaginative to try at only 4 to understand what it would be like to feel a baby inside you, and that, as a boy, that experience is out of the question for him. Is he imagining being you feeling him in your/his tummy so as to be as close as possible to you. (Has he had any loss or worries?)

I once read on one of these threads of a Canadian (?) mother who at once pounced into affirmative mode with a similar little son - called him a girl etc but several years later realised just in time (before starting him on puberty blockers) that he didn’t really want to be a girl but had just been identifying with her.

The dressing up collections at my DC's preschool/ school had only gendered items. It was a choice of Disney Princess dress, nurse dress, versus character Fireman suit, character Builder suit.
There were no sparkly jackets for instance, or velvet trousers. (Not even a Disney Prince Charming outfit). No plain white lab coats or random pieces of cloth and hats for the kids to invent their own costumes.
When I commented I got a reaction like I was "that parent", so I let it go as I had more urgent matters to spend my critical tokens on.

I'd do a safeguarding referral. What's to lose OP, this person isn't really a friend so you don't lose the friendship. Children's safeguarding is everyone's responsibility. Reference the Cass report - social transition is not a harmless neutral act. As mentioned, children have magical thinking, are discovering schemas... the boy can wear what he wants, use whatever name but needs to be told they can't actually ever become a girl. They can pretend to be, but they can't be, anymore than they can become a dinosaur. They just don't have the cognitive skills to understand. I mean, there's a reason it takes a while to question the very implausible Father Christmas story.
The fact she's posting about her "daughter" is what tips it for me. Her kid won't be reading it so that suggests she's buying into it, because it's not for his benefit that she's using "daughter". Otherwise she'd play along with her child like how you'd play along that they are a cat, but continue using son with everyone else. You wouldn't post online what your kitten it up to.

Absolutely bizarre and a form of child abuse. I think the comparison to MBP / factitious disorder is apt. The parent is gaining some kind of social or psychological currency from this, whether they know it or not.

I've never met a 4/5 year old of either sex that doesn't like sequins and nail polish. As the boys get a little older they are more likely to pretend not to like it or to gravitate away / lose interest in order to conform with the message that beautiful things are only for girls.

In social circles where parents make an effort to avoid sex stereotypes, you literally see it manifested in the clothing their children wear and the activities they like, even how they play with girls and boys.

It's interesting this. My son (4) says very regularly that he wishes he was a girl. But it's not to do with wearing dresses and stuff (though he does like that). He's usually vague about the reasons but the other day got upset when I was talking about feeling him move when he was inside my tummy saying "I wish I was a girl so I could feel that". He told me when he was really tiny that he wanted to get rid of his willy and has repeated that over the years. He also said the other day "When I'm a granny..." and I corrected him and he looked so sad and confused.

I am so sure it's just a phase but it has been really surprising for me. He has no reason to want to be a girl, he knows boys can plays with dolls etc, I've never entertained the idea that he can be a girl but he has been saying it for 2 years now.

The child starts school, peers then tell the child that xyz is for girls, child preferring xyz decide that this means they are actually a girl. Parents being right on embrace this and immediately start a social transition.

This fits so exactly to a child I know I had to check back that this wasn't me posting with a name change.

To be fair to this child, she wasn't really allowed a childhood where she climbed trees etc as mum was too busy touring, building their modelling credentials. It'd take up whole weekends and she only got to opt out when she declared herself a boy.
She was also exposed to a lot of drag and queer theory on the tours as it's ride in the industry. And she had autism. Eating disorders. A perfect storm if you will.

I don't blame the child. I blame the people that should be protecting her from it. Mum has cut off all her relatives and anyone who disagrees with gender ideology, so she has no gender non conforming role models any more and lives in a bubble.

And of course, as these things tend to do, she's got worse mental health the more she has been affirmed and is a school refuser.

Wow, thanks for that, @MrsOvertonsWindow , how interesting. Poor J!

It seems like a whole generation are being effed up by this ridiculous trend.
It’s odd that you rarely hear of middle aged people changing sex yet it’s rife in children and teenagers.
There’s going to be a whole cohort of screwed up adults in a few years 😢

She can climb trees at any age and doesn’t need to “be a boy” to do that. Poor child.

I think in the case I know, the child was forced into an early childhood modelling career and found it scary and boring. The transition seems a good excuse not to do it anymore and to do all the things she missed out on like climbing trees.

It sounds as if these mothers are using their own children as props to further/revive their “modelling careers”, or trying to get their children into modelling as “T” kids. Really sad for the children involved.

Actually to be fair she did “proper” modelling as well as the glamour stuff. She’s a little older now so does something else.

The 'transboy' I know has a mother who 'models' too.
Go figure.

It’s just shocking. A woman I know vaguely has a 10ish year old daughter who is now a boy 😏

A picture on her FB showed a child dressed in black, with her arms crossed tightly across her body, with chin length hair brushed forward enough to literally cover most of her face, “Cousin It” style. Just the mouth showing, looking so miserable.

She’s changed her name and the woman is now burbling about “mother/son” time.

The woman is an ex-page 3/glamour model and I’m willing to bet the daughter has decided that potentially being seen as just a pair of tits isn’t for her.

I heard this yesterday - mum asking her little girl (about 4 or 5 years old) how do you know you are a girl?
To be fair I regularly ask my three year old this. I am trying to teach him correct names for his anatomy and him answering 'my penis' to what makes you a boy, not only protects him from predators using children's lack of language to describe abuse, it also is an inoculation against gender ideology.

I would probably be accused of 'celebrating' my son's gender non conforming choices too much, but that's because it is almost a hyper awareness. Goes something like this.

What do you want pink ladybirds or blue slugs.
Pink ladybirds
internal voice: he's chosen pink. Will he get bullied? Better check?
you're sure?
Yes
internal voice oh no, have I just undermined his choice? Quick, undo, undo.
Great choice son!

Personally I believe that you actually have to ensure you don't completely colour code either gender, as there's no point telling 8-9 year olds colours are for everyone when most children have been colour coded since birth and they can see in their experience it's not true. If all they see is boys in blue and girls in pink they are vulnerable to gender ideology if they do not conform to gender norms. And let's face it, everyone transgresses stereotypes in one way or another.

I've tried to teach my son all colours are equal. My hope is as he doesn't see pink as inferior, he won't see girls as inferior. And if he doesn't like blue he won't think twice about purple or turquoise.

But from the outside superficially because he occasionally wears pink, purple, cats, birds, butterflies and flowers it'd look like I'm trying hard to make him gender non conforming. If you saw him on a firetruck, trains or sharks day you'd think the opposite.

Sometimes he mixes it up. I don't know what you'd think other than he's got no fashion sense haha!

I think this is conversion therapy of the Gender Non-Conforming. Little boy likes sparkles, pink and princess dresses. That’s GNC, so they need to change him into a girl so that he can conform to the feminine gender stereotypes he likes so much. Ridiculous. He’s only a child anyway, and next year he might be into tractors and dinosaurs! He is much too young to have a fixed gender identity.

Why aren’t GNC people celebrated anyway? Unless you have severe dysphoria, surely it’s easier to be GNC, living your best life and smashing outdated stereotypes, than have life-changing, brutal surgery and a lifetime of medication with horrible side effects?

Hopefully in this child’s case it won’t go any further than a temporary social transition which is, at least, reversible. I’m not sure I’d dare say anything negative to the mum - but I might hope my DC said something. Children are blunt, they tell it like it is and they can’t get cancelled for it!

QueSyrahSyrah . Yesterday 21:02

Its terrifying that these natural explorations are being jumped on and magnified by parents into something huge and damaging. Where did we lose the concept that it's just ok for people to like whatever they like, without it meaning they're obviously in the wrong body

Worst of all is that you hear of schools jumping on and magnifying the possibility that someone like this ‘is trans’ without involving the parents.

SwordToFlamethrower · Today 08:26
What a lovely story about your DS, Sword.

I know an Instagrammer who dressed her son (5) in girly dresses from age 2 claiming "he really wants them". As many posters here mentioned, it's possible that a toddler boy is drawn to sparkles or more exciting textures on girls clothes but it's hard to imagine that a 2 year old really accompanies their parents on every single clothes shopping trip and kicks up a fuss if they don't get the dresses.

The mother is a very particular type of woman who is self-obsessed, materialistic, very vain despite not being that good looking and narrow-minded (eg. anti-covid vaxxer) but "faux liberal" due to consuming copious amounts of social media. The act of posting images of a cute child in dresses gave her copious amounts of attention and I think some women thrive on that. A lot of the attention was positive because it's trendy to applaud progressive mothers and she tapped into that niche.

Honestly, at 2-4 yrs, all kids are pretty much unisex so seeing a boy in a dress is quite adorable and palatable to almost everyone. Though it seems a certain subset of mothers whose lives revolve around social media, curated wokeness and self-obsession realised they can easily use this to their advantage. It makes them feel special and unique, which enhances the slog of daily life as a mother. I would definitely not raise the issue with them though, because it cannot end well. If they truly believe they are doing the right thing for their sons then no amount of intervention will change that.

I heard this yesterday - mum asking her little girl (about 4 or 5 years old) how do you know you are a girl?
They were coming out of the loos at an event. I have no more context, other than it seemed the child knew she was a girl and was ok with this fact. What on earth the mum was doing to question this, I do not know. It was quite concerning.

If our children are going to be lied to- that they can change sex- but they know we cannot, then how much will that mess them up? Biological sex is a fact of our lives, to shake the foundation of that is going to shake everything.

I now think that queer theory has won. How we are going to fight against it I don't know. I do know that every single man and dad I know is GC and thinks changing gender is ludicrous. And I think I less GC men get busy protesting we will get nowhere. Feminists carry basically no weight and the 'trans debate ' is constantly framed as it's women slagging each other off & both are as bad as each other. However those in the fight know it is not this at all.

It is very troubling.

Thank you for explaining my thoughts better than I did. The parents I am thinking of will almost actively push the child towards the pink sparkly stuff and then 'celebrate' it on Facebook.

When my youngest was born I was given clothes, most of them were pink. On another forum someone posted that if they saw a baby girl in pink then they would instantly know that the nursery etc at home would be totally gendered. When I objected I was told I was being too sensitive and therefore I was buying into the pinkness. Buying pink for a girl is frowned upon, buying it for a boy is to be celebrated.

Vegan cats and sexism.

@Bergamotte The ones where the picture changes when you swipe the sequins up and down are particularly cool. I was somewhat jealous to be honest, and they are appealing to all kids (boy or girl) in the same way trainers that flash when you stamp are.
Aside from the present>dinosaur sequin tops (boy coded) my son went through a brief phrase of really wanting pink. And of liking everything sparkly. Which was fine. But I think other posters were talking about something else - some parents actively push their boys towards pink/sparkly clothing or at least awkwardly proud of it in away they wouldn't be if their daughter was wearing pink. I don't think in itself its particularly harmful (so long as the child isn't being pressurised or they decide they are "trans") . Its definitely a thing though