Influential people who have children who are trans

And this is also happening in Parliament. You seem to be both agreeing and disagreeing with me.

Exactly, the capturing & distorting is the issue

I would definitely become a man if I was the daughter of a real housewife

I think the real issue is the extent to which this damages the rights of others. If the 400 or so rumoured relatives of trans people working for the BBC want to campaign in their spare time then bully for them. If they want to capture the whole BBC and distort its truthful reporting then we need to have a public conversation. It’s the old (Clarence Darrow?) your right to stretch out your arm ends at my nose.

I'm not convinced by this, though. What if an MP who advocated gay rights had a gay child who they didn't mention? Or a white MP advocating against racism had a mixed race child? Should they not be able to do those things?

And if trans being a belief system means that they can't advocate for it, what about other belief systems? Can a Christian/Jewish/Hindu etc MP not be allowed to let their religion influence their political views? How would that work? Religion has influenced so many politicians (obviously we also have religious leaders in the House of Lords)

I am v GC. But I just don't see how we can forbid MPs who allow the trans belief system to influence them.

Would that then mean that we strike off all MPs who believe in gender ideology, whether they have a trans child or not, since it's a belief system?

The head of safeguarding at Durham Cobstabulary.

Trans is different from those things due to it being a belief system similar to a religion. Another difference is the secrecy aspect, since their relationship to the trans-identifying person is often not declared, sometimes due to the need to protect the privacy of a child.

So we end up with MPs or other public figures who are outwardly presenting what they claim is an objective position, who are really presenting a biased argument based on their own personal circumstances and a religious type of belief which stems from those circumstances.

Ultimately it's just dishonest.

R.e. being personal, evidently everyone needs to be careful, but I'd read David Tennant interviews in support of trans rights/anti JKR (the Guardian) before finding out he has a trans child.

Especially on difficult topics everyone tends to lean towards the views of those we like/think are intelligent. Nothing wrong with that per se.

But when you realise they have a bias - an understandable one, wanting what they see as best for their child - it reduces the power of their argument.

David Tennant - non binary child.

It does matter not only because of trying to convince themselves (v possibly not being true believers) but because celebrity offspring and celebrities themselves have enormous social media presence that influence young impressionable children and teens.

For example, Eliot Page and that Canadian comedienne are referenced by my DC and their friends with great admiration about their authentic trans selves. It does influence young impressionable people. Such a shame that they chose that route in reaction to experiencing horrendous sexual abuse but they’re adults. However, why oh why must they post multiple insta posts with their tops off showing off their mastectomies scars? Doing untold damage to young teens.

Edited to see I’ve already said my piece on EP. As you were.

Don't stand so close to me

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Tweet spotted today (you can find it yourselves)
Stephen Kinnock is reported to be the father of an adult trans child. So why is he standing by while this government wages a relentless campaign against the trans community? As a parent, I could never sit alongside colleagues who deny my child’s right to exist.

Look at the guilt tripping and coercive attempt.

I think this is a bit too much. By that logic, gay MPs wouldn't have been able to support gay rights, black MPs couldn't support anti-racism etc

I do think it's valid to talk about this. One of the presenters of the Remainiacs/ Oh God what now podcast has a trans identifying child. He's mentioned this on twitter in an angry rant at JK Rowling a few years ago, I'm not 'outing' anybody. The result .. their coverage on the issue has become unhinged. It's affected all his colleagues too, I assume because they want to support their friend. It's what Helen Joyce talks about, it matters because it affects the discourse.

The thread should really use inverted commas. Otherwise we on MN collude with the fantasy: Nobody can 'trans' into being the opposite sex, any more than they can 'trans' into being a chicken. Therefore, if someone declares he is a chicken, dresses in feathers or even if he gets a plastic beak implanted on his nose, we call him 'transchicken', using inverted commas to indicate he is not a real chicken.

Arguably it is regrettable that people with power or influence are just as illiterate, scientifically, as are the general public: For reasons of patriarchy, the world is skewed to whatever men like, i.e. competition and boasting as a proxy for fighting. Much of the world which men have created depends on being fact-free: Consumerism, religion, patriarchy politics: All use "believe this", which is the opposite of scientific mindset.

Every cell and system in a male body is male. Any scientist should be unafraid to say so. As should any doctor.

Please, then, can MN stop using the Stonewall language, other than in inverted commas? Nobody is trans anything, (therefore nobody can be anti-trans) nobody is cis, nor gender critical. Every use of those words without inverted commas is a tacit approval of a lie, and a lie dangerous to women and children.. But every added inverted comma is a fight back for sanity and scientific realism.

That explains so much about the persecution of GC authors.

People with trans kids should recuse themselves from anything to do with trans, at least in their capacity as public figures.

He has 3 daughters and 2 are identifying as males. So sad, but you can see the source of his activism now.

Chairs and members of NHS England committees. Also true of trusts and ICBs.

Probably true for the Civil Service and a range of NGOs and ALBs.

Agreed. The only thing I find shocking is quite how many very prominent people - whether celebrities or politicians- are caught up in this. I was aware the ideology was particularly embedded among the wealthy and privileged but it’s scary to see the extent of it. This info is in the public domain- Emma Bunton, for example, actively uses her own social media to speak about her child. It’s that that makes me uncomfortable, not it being subsequently discussed on a parenting platform where many, many mums are concerned about their own kids’ welfare and the grip this ideology has over them.

the fact trans ideology came from nowhere to exert such control over our speech, our lives, our bodies and those of our children, merits analysis. Very wealthy and influential people have been behind it. I seem to remember there was even some speculation about Keir Starmer’s children, based on the fact that one seemed to change sex during a newspaper interview. I appreciate it would be an incredibly hard thing to be open about and I certainly wouldn’t want to see any young child splashed all over the newspapers, as has happened with previous politicians’ families. But I think at least some honesty is needed - perhaps even the honesty to step back from a decision that impacts competing groups if you yourself are tied to one of those groups, in the same way politicians are forced to declare financial interests.

The world has gone mad.

Exactly. R Kelly's daughter was born in 1998, there was loads of homophobia in the US at that time (Bush Moral Majority era). Yes, she was in celebrity/entertainment circles, but that doesn't necessarily mean people were super gay accepting. Think of the backlash when Ellen came out in 1997, and then the homophobia the Oscars & others displayed to stuff like Brokeback Mountain in the early 2000s.

Homophobia is also stronger in the black community due to greater religiosity. That extends to the entertainment industry.

Sad to find out that one of my favourite singers, Lea Salonga, has a trans son who's only 18 but on hormones apparently.

I don't see the issue with this thread at all. All the information being discussed is in the public domain, no-one is being outed, and celebrities have enormous reach and social influence.

Also not sure about "most oppressed minority". I saw that Judy Blume has quickly had to recant. For such an oppressed group, there seems to be an awful lot of power over other people's speech going on.

That's in reply to the Fox basher tweet.