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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

736 replies

Vebrithien · 01/02/2023 12:51

Well, here we are, with a whole new thread!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head?page=10&reply=123546552

Thank you all, so so much for the support you have given me.

I am currently working on the draft of the message I want to send.

Long story short, DD's primary school displays posters by No Outsiders, showing the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Sex as been replaced with gender.

I have raised this with the Head, the assistant Head, and the Deputy Head (DepHead, as DH just doesn't work here). I have been reassured that sex is synonymous with gender in law, and, through an email stream, No Outsiders have reassured the school that it is deliberate, gender is easier to teach children than sex, especially as some will snigger at sex.

Oh, and teaching that gender is the difference between boys and girls, it makes it easier to then explain gender reassignment later on.

I'll put the message from the DepHead and No Outsiders here, and also my reply, in its current state.

Thank you all again!

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Thread gallery
25
Binglebong · 05/03/2024 08:19

Bloody hell! Straight to governors with that one.

Vebrithien · 05/03/2024 08:15

Well, an update of sorts.

We decided, to cover all bases, that we would send another email, highlighting exactly what our concerns about the book were. It is written, and we were ready to send it today.

But.

Last night, the DepHead phoned one of the parents who signed the email we sent 3 weeks ago (the very mild, watered down one), and the DepHead had a go at the parent for her involvement.

I've got to get more details, but now it seems that the DepHead is targeting and bullying individual parents!

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Vebrithien · 26/02/2024 20:37

Yes, @ScrollingLeaves , one of our concerns about the narrative in the book is about how prescriptive it is about the wonderful new life that they will all lead.

There is no mention of the actual mum. There is no mention of how the child may feel confused and upset. It's just all glitter and sparkle.

I know there are some wonderful posters here who are trans-widows.

Does anyone know, what are the stats on a marriage/partnership breaking down, when one partner transitions?

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ScrollingLeaves · 26/02/2024 19:57

Slight detail regarding the book:

This site for the children of transitioners was on another thread (about transwomen breast feeding). I wonder, in the interests of inclusivity, what the children of dads who have done this would really think about this book?

https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2024/02/22/safeguarding-concerns-in-the-nhs/

Archived: https://archive.ph/EyFQO

Safeguarding Concerns in the NHS

Many readers have seen Children of Transitioners’ letter from Sussex NHS Trust (thanks for your help Lottie/ Biology Matters project) link here. Policy Exchange Biology Matters COTS Lett…

https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2024/02/22/safeguarding-concerns-in-the-nhs

ScrollingLeaves · 26/02/2024 19:47

Vebrithien · Today 16:36
By ensuring a child reads that book, the intention is clearly there to educate on gender identity ideology.

Yes, and to deconstruct the dissembling, as you say,

“The Head also states that the children were being

taught

about different types of families (due to it being LGB

QT+ History Month)”

“She is my Dad” is a gender identity book.

I take it that the book was not just on display in the library as one of many choices but taught with comprehension questions. That really sets it up in the mind. No glossing over it. This means a lot is interpreted and probably promoted as fact in the text by the teacher saying this is what this and that means.

Gaslighting school.

Vebrithien · 26/02/2024 19:41

Thank you @Villagetoraiseachild , this is exactly how we feel.

We are currently debating our next step.

The most recent email we sent, we toned down massively, so we are debating:

  1. Send a final email, making our concerns absolutely clear about the totalitarian and inflexible beliefs presented as fact, in the book, as well as the harmful sterotypes.

This will add 5 days to the timeline, but could then support us in a formal complaint, as we could then say that we have been super clear with our concerns. It would also allow us to refute the unsaid but implied notion that we a bigoted lot.

  1. Go straight to formal complaint. They aren't going to listen to us.

I'm leaning towards 1, as it allows us to expand on our concerns, which we removed from the last email, and makes it crystal clear what the issue is.

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Villagetoraiseachild · 26/02/2024 19:13

@Vebrithien I replied to yr earlier post but in trying to add an emoji, erased the lot!

Yes to 1, 2 and 3.

The powers that be at the school have eroded parental trust by sneaking in materials of concern under the watchful radar of concerned individuals and presenting this as a fait accompli.

By ensuring a child reads that book, the intention is clearly there to educate on gender identity ideology.

It appears the school disregards the valid objections of parents and guardians and have taken, through their insistence at pushing GI material in the guise of Reading Comprehension, a No Debate stance.

I have read the precis of the book concerned and it is aimed at three to seven year olds.
Misgendering is introduced as a concept and how it can be hurtful to do this.
I feel it's desperately unfair and inappropriate to impose this on children of these ages as general reading matter, as something they are required to comprehend.

Vebrithien · 26/02/2024 18:25

Formal complaints have to be sent using a MAT form and can be submitted by more than one person.

We were wondering if we should submit complaints about;

  1. The school appears to be teaching gender identity, despite guidance against this.
  2. Our concerns about the lack of transparency from the school.
  3. Our concerns about how the school has handled our concerns, including attempting to clamp down any discussion.

Edited to add the word "form"

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SinnerBoy · 26/02/2024 17:18

Vebrithien I feel for you!

WarriorN · Today 16:28

Good luck. It may be better to have separate complaints, I'm not really sure, other than each one may need to be dealt with separately. So all recorded separately etc.

That does have the risk of a, "No one else has complained," reply.

But on second thoughts, you would have a potential response of, "That's a lie, I know who else has complained. If you're willing to lie about something so easily checked, how can we trust you not to lie about everything?"

HagoftheNorth · 26/02/2024 16:49

Veb, it is amazing when you lay it out like that, how long this has been going on for, and just how slippery the school is being. Does a formal complaint go to the governors? Good luck, you are doing great work on behalf of the children in that school, and for all of us

Vebrithien · 26/02/2024 16:36

Timeline

24/11/22
I spoke to the Assistant Head, about a No Outsiders poster which incorrectly showed "gender" rather than "sex" as 1 of the 9 Protected Characteristics. The other 8 PC's were as written in law. Assistant Head stated that he thought the PC was actually "gender" in the Equality Act.

06/01/23

I spoke to the Head about the poster. She referred me onto the DepHead, as head of EDI. The Head stated that the organisation responsible for creating the poster were "the experts". No Outsiders sell their products as "teaching the Equality Act in schools"

11/01/23

I spoke to the DepHead, who stated that the poster didn't actually state it was about the 9 Protected Characteristics, therefore there wasn't an issue that one PC had been changed. I also reminded the DepHead that school teachers are required to be able to name the 9 PCs correctly, by Ofsted.

26/01/23

Email from the DepHead to me, reiterating that the poster doesn't show the 9 Protected Characteristics, and included communication from the No Outsiders organisation, stating that they prefer to use "gender" and not "sex", as children will giggle over "sex", and that using "gender" makes it easier to then explain gender reassignment.

07/02/23

I emailed the DepHead (cc'd in the Head) reminding the DepHead that schools are required to teach the 9 Protected Characteristics, as written in law. Secondly, that this is a political subject, and schools are required to remain politically neutral, and there are concerns about the lack of neutrality from No Outsiders. Thirdly, that the legal responsibility for content used by the school, from outside organisations, resides with the school. Lastly, that the use of imprecise language significantly disadvantages and excludes students with SEND, EAL and students from a different culture.

24/02/23

I shared my concerns on the closed WhatApp group for the year group. This was prompted by a survey sent out by the school that day (from Diversity Role Models), which asked the questions "How confident do you feel that the school protects children and parents with a protected characteristic?" I felt that if the school did not acknowledge the 9PC's correctly, they could not protect them.

Friend H emailed the DepHead to add her concerns about the political and controversial nature of gender identity ideology, and especially the importance of using clear, biologically based language with the children.

27/02/23

The DepHead emailed me to inform that the incorrect posters were removed, and would be corrected to read "sex equality", instead of "gender"

02/03/23

The Assistant Head phoned me to warn me of breaking the parental code of conduct, and that I should not be discussing concerns about the school on social media (at the point, the school policy (updated 2021) did not mention WhatsApp as a form of social media). A whole school email was sent out later that week, adding WhatsApp to the examples of social media.

17/03/23

Friend D emailed the Head and CC'd the DepHead on the behalf of herself and a group of concern parents, about the resources used in RSE, and requested a meeting.

21/03/23

Email received from the DepHead inviting the concerned parents to a meeting at school.

19/05/23

Meeting at school, with the DepHead, the Assistant Head and the Head of RSE.
RSE documents were looked, parents were reassured that gender identity is not taught at this school, and if it is discussed, it is as a belief. RSE topics and resources are to be shared with all parents at the beginning of terms.

02/02/24

Message home for one of the junior year groups, states that "She is my Dad" was used as the reading comprehension book for the past week. This has a very strong message about gender identity ideology, portraying it as fact, and strong (and harmful) sexist stereotypes.

07/02/24

Friend H emailed the Head, CC'd the DepHead on behalf of herself and concerned parents, expressing concern that parents were feeling betrayed by the school, due to the nature of the book used, and how it has not been shared in advance.

09/02/24

Email from Friend H acknowledged by the school.

26/02/24

Email from the Head to Friend H, CC'd the other concerned parents. Stating that the school does not teach gender identity ideology, and that as the book was not part of the RSE curriculum, it was not shared with parents in advance. The Head also states that the children were being taught about different types of families (due to it being LGBQT+ History Month), and that inclusion at the school is most highly prized in parents and child feedback to Ofsted. The Head states at all stereotypes are challenged, however with no clarification of how the sexist stereotypes portrayed in the book are challenged.

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WarriorN · 26/02/2024 16:28

but as reading comprehension, they did not need to share it with us in advance.

Yep, they get round the issue like this all the time.

Good luck. It may be better to have separate complaints, I'm not really sure, other than each one may need to be dealt with separately. So all recorded separately etc

In the other hand if it's joint they may invite a group meeting (or you can demand one.)

Vebrithien · 26/02/2024 16:22

As of this afternoon, there are 5 parents willing to take this to formal complaint. We're just discussing whether to do this as one complaint, or several.

One parent has reported back that their son was told in assembly last year, that some children choose to be boys, some choose to be girls, and some choose to be neither.

I've typed up the timeline of conversations, and actions, from my point of view. I'll copy it below, as best I can.

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Vebrithien · 26/02/2024 16:18

Also, the Headteacher did not address any of our concerns about the book (portraying Gender Identity Ideology as fact, and harmful sexist stereotypes)

Lastly, that inclusion is highly prized at the school, by parents and children (according the the Ofsted feedback) you exclusionary witches

This was despite us raising the concern that allowing GII to be presented in this way, as fact, is directly excluding some of the children.

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Vebrithien · 26/02/2024 16:11

Sorry to leave you in the lurch, internet packed up!

The Headteacher replied. Ultimately, as the book is not used as part of their RSE curriculum, but as reading comprehension, they did not need to share it with us in advance. Also, we had been warned that the children would be reading about different types of families (that's all it was, not more specific) as part of LGBTQ+ History Month so we have no reason at all to feel betrayed

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Xiaoxiong · 26/02/2024 14:12

Oh @Vebrithien what a shitter. Is it because they've taken too much time to respond? Or because they sent you an unsatisfactory response? Are the other parents going to join you in co-signing the complaint, as you mentioned up-thread?

Boiledbeetle · 26/02/2024 13:45

Vebrithien · 26/02/2024 13:41

Well, it's off to formal complaint we go.

FFS!

And

It is only the children with pre-existing struggles (ASD, mental health struggles, potentially gay) who show any interest at all in the ideology.

Because it's sold to them as the panacea to all that ails them!

And best get yourself battle ready! Eat cake!

Tina Fey Nbc GIF by Saturday Night Live
ScrollingLeaves · 26/02/2024 13:44

Vebrithien · 26/02/2024 13:41

Well, it's off to formal complaint we go.

Is that because they have not answered you?

Vebrithien · 26/02/2024 13:41

Well, it's off to formal complaint we go.

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Xiaoxiong · 26/02/2024 09:15

I'm also waiting to hear back from my email - sent a while back but to be fair, half term was in the way as well.

In the interim, the PSHE teacher has sent out an email to ask mothers of children at the school to come and speak about their careers for International Women's Day.

Vebrithien · 25/02/2024 19:54

Villagetoraiseachild · 25/02/2024 08:42

It feels like a long road, so let's keep encouraging and supporting each other and keep chip chip chipping away, making a multitude of small causes where and when we can.
Enormous respect to those of you who are on the educational front line.

Absolutely! Chip, chip, chip at the block.

It's so interesting, what I see with the late teenagers I teach. Many are quiet on the subject, quite a few just roll their eyes.

It is only the children with pre-existing struggles (ASD, mental health struggles, potentially gay) who show any interest at all in the ideology.

In other news, we are still waiting to hear back from the primary school.

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Villagetoraiseachild · 25/02/2024 08:42

It feels like a long road, so let's keep encouraging and supporting each other and keep chip chip chipping away, making a multitude of small causes where and when we can.
Enormous respect to those of you who are on the educational front line.

Xiaoxiong · 12/02/2024 09:38

@Villagetoraiseachild I have found @Vebrithien 's threads useful in drafting my responses to the school, plus a combination of the materials on Safe Schools Alliance, Transgender Trend and Sex Matters.

Adult education I am not quite as sure of as most of my objections related to how this subject was being presented to children under the age of 13. I think you might be best served by the fact that lack of belief in gender ideology is as protected under the Equality Act 2010, as belief in gender ideology is (thanks to the decision in Forstater v CGD Europe). So in order for an educational instutition not to be promoting one side of a highly contested ideological and political position, both beliefs should be presented and given equal weight (if they are to be presented at all).

@Vebrithien I understand your reticence not to involve your DH. I know my DH is in agreement on the basic facts but as a teacher himself he really really REALLY doesn't want to get involved giving the school a hard time. He will agree with me sending emails but he doesn't want to read them before I send them and just says he trusts me. I don't think he really grasps why this is such a big deal to me to change things at the policy level - I think he'd prefer that we just speak to our own DC at home about our own beliefs and let other parents do the same. This ignores the fact that there are large numbers of parents at our school for whom English is not their first language and are really at sea with the linguistic gymnastics that this ideology relies on. There are also plenty of people who just aren't paying attention because they just don't have time or aren't aware of what's going on.

SinnerBoy · 12/02/2024 09:17

It's only defamation if it's untrue.

WarriorN · 12/02/2024 09:14

There's a balance to be had though, when it comes to clear breeches of safeguarding, where whistleblowing comes in.

Could you contact the DS governor?

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