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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

736 replies

Vebrithien · 01/02/2023 12:51

Well, here we are, with a whole new thread!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head?page=10&reply=123546552

Thank you all, so so much for the support you have given me.

I am currently working on the draft of the message I want to send.

Long story short, DD's primary school displays posters by No Outsiders, showing the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Sex as been replaced with gender.

I have raised this with the Head, the assistant Head, and the Deputy Head (DepHead, as DH just doesn't work here). I have been reassured that sex is synonymous with gender in law, and, through an email stream, No Outsiders have reassured the school that it is deliberate, gender is easier to teach children than sex, especially as some will snigger at sex.

Oh, and teaching that gender is the difference between boys and girls, it makes it easier to then explain gender reassignment later on.

I'll put the message from the DepHead and No Outsiders here, and also my reply, in its current state.

Thank you all again!

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dimorphism · 06/03/2024 16:44

Is this the same person who threatened to report you for defamation (I think?) @Vebrithien because you spoke to other parents about your / their concerns on Whatsapp? Demonstrating a total lack of understanding of defamation law.

If so, they have form for being a bully verbally to parents. Or was that the Assistant Head (who I will henceforth refer to as Ass Head) Really unprofessional behaviour from anyone near to a headship position. It's unacceptable for parents to be bullied in this way.

dimorphism · 06/03/2024 16:33

The Deputy Head has not followed the procedure outlined in that government document. Parents have an implied license to come on site to drop off and pick up their children. It should have been in writing and the parent should have had a right of reply.

Instead, in a call and not in writing, and then claims to be 'investigating' the parent rather than the parent having the right to present their side.

Princessglittery · 06/03/2024 16:25

@Vebrithien have you thought about sending the Head links to Rachel Meade and Jo Phoenix’s ET judgements.

Both of these should send shivers down the spine for senior managers and employers who don’t recognise GC views are protected and this type of behaviour is potentially discriminatory.

Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 14:47

Have sent messages to TT, SSA and SM.

Will see if there is any response.

It's a bit difficult, since although I am involved in complaining against this, I am not the parent actually banned. I have offered to put the directly affected parent in contact, which I think is all I can currently do.

Feel so awful for her. She didn't understand why the school wouldn't just not teach her child about transgender people, and instead of explaining the schools reasons, the DepHead has called her views potentially offensive, and told her to consider putting her children into a different school.

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Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 14:10

MrsOvertonsWindow · 06/03/2024 12:43

Here's the non statutory guidance that schools can use to ban a parent from school.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/controlling-access-to-school-premises/controlling-access-to-school-premises

It does sound as if the Dep Head is spiralling out of control with all this and you're going to have to go through the whole formal complaints process

I think I love you.

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SinnerBoy · 06/03/2024 12:58

Vebrithien · Today 12:22

Banned friend is going to email, with her feelings from the phone call and the message, to the Head, asking for someone other than the DepHead to complete this investigation. She is going to make it a complaint about how she has been treated.

What an awful position she's been put in and as Dimorphism says, the child will no doubt become the subject of rumours. As Amaryllis says, taking a solicitor to any meeting is a very good idea.

dimorphism · 06/03/2024 12:53

In the meantime I'd either not send my child to school or send them in with someone else. But of course maybe singling out the child and making their life miserable in school is the Deputy Head's intent to get them to move schools. Horrendous, just horrendous.

dimorphism · 06/03/2024 12:52

The Deputy Head clearly cares more about gender ideology than about a child in the school who, by their actions, they are now setting up to be seen as different from their peers / open to potential bullying. If other kids bullied this child as a result do we have any confidence the Deputy Head would do anything about it? I don't. It shows a horrendous failure to fulfil the school's responsibilities to this child. Why isn't the Headteacher stepping in?

dimorphism · 06/03/2024 12:49

@Vebrithien I'd suggest Sex Matters - I suspect they know some good lawyers. I'd donate A LOT of money to any crowdfund for legal representation for the parent who the Dep Head has arbitrarily banned. I would be taking a lawyer to any meeting with the school about this supposed witchhunt investigation and what exactly the basis for it is, other than that the Deputy Head is bullying the parent.

Every update is worse - so the child of a parent who happens to believe gender ideology shouldn't be taught as fact in schools and has discussed that privately with other parents now is going to be singled out? That is NOT in the child's best interest. Of course all the other children will be asking why that child is going in via the school office.

As a parent, I would refuse to do this, it's ceding ground. That parent has done nothing wrong and should not have to do this. I very much hope the Headteacher overrules this immediately.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 06/03/2024 12:46

If I was the parent who'd been on the receiving end of that inappropriate phone call telling me to take my child elsewhere (and then been banned from the school!) I would consider paying a solicitor to send a mild "what's all this about then" letter to the head teacher (not the deputy) rather than writing myself. But it depends what she/you can afford.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 06/03/2024 12:43

Here's the non statutory guidance that schools can use to ban a parent from school.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/controlling-access-to-school-premises/controlling-access-to-school-premises

It does sound as if the Dep Head is spiralling out of control with all this and you're going to have to go through the whole formal complaints process

Controlling access to school premises

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/controlling-access-to-school-premises/controlling-access-to-school-premises

Iamnotalemming · 06/03/2024 12:38

MrsOvertonsWindow · 01/02/2023 14:46

The primary teacher who runs the No Outsiders group (who produce these posters) has an interest in Queer Theory. He co presented a paper at a seminar called Queering the Body; Queering Primary Education.

This is an extract from the blurb about the seminar:

“The team is concerned to interrogate the desexualisation of children’s and teacher’s bodies, the negation of pleasure and desire and the tendency to shy away from discussion of (sexual) bodily activity in No Outsiders project work. The danger of accusations of the corruption of innocent children…..has led team members to make repeated claims that this project is not about sex or desire – and that it is therefore not about bodies. Yet, at a very significant level that is exactly what it is about… "

You can read more about this extraordinary concept in a piece by Transgender Trend that looked at the origins of the project:

www.transgendertrend.com/no-outsiders-queering-primary-classroom/

Good grief that was an eye opening read. I feel sick now too.

Thanks for sharing @MrsOvertonsWindow

Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 12:22

Banned friend has been told to drop her child off at the school office, until the DepHead has made her decision.

Banned friend is going to email, with her feelings from the phone call and the message, to the Head, asking for someone other than the DepHead to complete this investigation. She is going to make it a complaint about how she has been treated.

Our email has been sent, we have made sure that there isn't a single sentence that, if taken on its own, could be used to vilify us.

We are going to reach out to Transgender Trend, Safe Schools Alliance, and the Free Speech Union, to see if they can offer any support or help.

Does anyone know of anyone else we can contact?

We are reluctant to go to the press. Myself, and another friend are in professions where we can't bring the profession into disrepute, and where we cannot take a political position.

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dimorphism · 06/03/2024 10:39

I do know the school process. Look how the Dep Head has dragged this out whilst still trying to indoctrinate children. Every day children are in that school with a Deputy Head that believes one faith trumps all others and whose thinking is so disordered that they are conflating anyone who disagrees as a safeguarding risk to other parents. With no concern for children apparently. It's appalling and shows why statutory government guidance is needed.

dimorphism · 06/03/2024 10:35

I would also say I don't think the Dep Head has the authority to ban the parent on these grounds so I think I'd actually be writing to the Head with an 'I assume I can bring my child to school as normal' and 'please can you consider - as you are legally bound to do - how to safeguard my child given these actions by the Dep Head'. Hopefully the parent has a partner who can take the child to school in the interim.

If a parent is banned from school grounds and no-one else available to bring child to school, how do they ensure child arrives safely at school?

I would not want my child alone with the Dep Head after those threats. Investigating a parent for wrongthink! Salem witch trials anyone?!

Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 10:11

Thank you, all.

We have sent our complaint clarification email.

We have advised the banned parent to send her recollection of the conversation with the DepHead, and how she has been treated, and to highlight that this is an official complaint.

We are preparing our dates and resources, to show that we have attempted to resolve and discuss this with the school.

Our MP is as captured as a captured thing. In reply to my letter about transwomen in female prisons, she wrote back telling me that they should be able to go where their identify, and that they are the most marginalised people.

The policy for the school is complaint, formal complaint, governors.

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RavingStone · 06/03/2024 10:08

Princessglittery · 06/03/2024 09:58

@Vebrithien that is awful.

pp are right the DH is not independent. Politely pointing this out to the Head and asking for a genuinely independent person to investigate is reasonable.

As you know Religion and Belief are protected characteristics. The DH Singling out a GC parent of a pupil from a multi faith family is potentially Religious discrimination. It could be seen as bullying. Again politely pointing this out to the Head and Governors strengthens your case.

Edited

Yes. The irony being that the deputy head could probably learn more about genuine diversity and inclusion from this parent than they have from the ideology they have swallowed.

Princessglittery · 06/03/2024 09:58

@Vebrithien that is awful.

pp are right the DH is not independent. Politely pointing this out to the Head and asking for a genuinely independent person to investigate is reasonable.

As you know Religion and Belief are protected characteristics. The DH Singling out a GC parent of a pupil from a multi faith family is potentially Religious discrimination. It could be seen as bullying. Again politely pointing this out to the Head and Governors strengthens your case.

Kucinghitam · 06/03/2024 09:56

Bloody hell!

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 06/03/2024 09:51

Wow!

I agree- governorss and solicitor time. MP if you have a useful one.

And I know you didn't want to go to the press but it may be worth reconsidering that. Not as a thing to do right now, but maybe have an 'at what point could that become an option?' discussion.

dimorphism · 06/03/2024 09:39

If a school treated me that way about asking questions about a lesson (and frankly anything less than unruly and disruptive / violent behaviour in the playground) I'd not feel happy sending my child into that school. It's such a horrendous lack of judgement and clearly pushing a political agenda - and very much NOT in the best interests of the child of that parent.

Teachers don't get to police what parents talk about. In utter shock at your update. MP and solicitor would me my initial thoughts.

SinnerBoy · 06/03/2024 09:38

Yes, it's a clear conflict of interest. How can they pass judgement on themself?

dimorphism · 06/03/2024 09:37

The Dep Head should NOT be conducing the investigation as they're clearly not impartial!

dimorphism · 06/03/2024 09:36

@Vebrithien Wow just catching up. The Deputy Head's behaviour to ban a parent from the school site is a serious issue.

Have you considered sharing all of your emails with your MP? I do not think the Deputy Head is acting legally. The parent has done nothing that warrants such behaviour and nothing that puts other parents at risk. Politely asking questions is not a crime, FFS.

How can that parent send their child into school and be assured they will be safe when the Deputy Head is apparently able to make such decisions against all reason. I actually think the Dep Head acting like this is a safeguarding issue for that parent's child. What message is it sending to that child if their parent can't drop them off as normal?

Is it possible to speak to a solicitor and take immediate legal action?

What should happen here is the Deputy Head should lose their job. They are not capable of rational decisions in the children's best interests.

DrBlackbird · 06/03/2024 09:22

bignosebignose · 06/03/2024 08:51

“to safeguard the other parents.”

Wut? Asking other parents about the curriculum is a safeguarding issue? The DepHead seems to have lost all sense of perspective. Governors, then Local Authority, then even Ofsted, may be the end game here.

This was a WTAF moment for me as well. Does a school have any right or responsibility to safeguard parents?! Hopefully the DH is getting so batshit that it will soon become openly apparent to all.

Definitely a personal issue underlying her behaviour. Very possibly the DH has a trans or NB child and feels personally attacked. If so, the Head is likely to be sympathetic to their colleague.