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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

736 replies

Vebrithien · 01/02/2023 12:51

Well, here we are, with a whole new thread!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head?page=10&reply=123546552

Thank you all, so so much for the support you have given me.

I am currently working on the draft of the message I want to send.

Long story short, DD's primary school displays posters by No Outsiders, showing the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Sex as been replaced with gender.

I have raised this with the Head, the assistant Head, and the Deputy Head (DepHead, as DH just doesn't work here). I have been reassured that sex is synonymous with gender in law, and, through an email stream, No Outsiders have reassured the school that it is deliberate, gender is easier to teach children than sex, especially as some will snigger at sex.

Oh, and teaching that gender is the difference between boys and girls, it makes it easier to then explain gender reassignment later on.

I'll put the message from the DepHead and No Outsiders here, and also my reply, in its current state.

Thank you all again!

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Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 22:00

I'll have a play about with what I've already got, and see if I can come up with a couple of letters/emails to the aforementioned MPs.

I do wonder if it is worth mentioning in them, that I cannot go to my own MP, because she has shown that she believes TWAW, even to the detrimental of women in prisons.

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Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 21:58

Small child interventions are completely understood.

I was awoken at ridiculous o'clock this morning, still in the dark hours, to DS, standing next to my side of the bed. With a full potty.

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Coffeestain · 06/03/2024 21:55

(Sorry slow response. A small child staged an intervention as i was writing!)

Coffeestain · 06/03/2024 21:54

Thanks @Princessglittery - I was coming here to give the same addresses. These are their Parliamentary addresses (ie address as an MP) rather than their departmental (ie address as a minister eg an address @ education.gov) but the latter are hard to find and parliamentary offices should pass correspondence on to the ministerial office, who will then pass it on to some civil Servants to answer.

You need to make sure that your email sets out an ask for them as ministers rather than just relay your experience, as otherwise you’re likely to just get some stock lines about how to complain to/about a school. For example you could include a request that your experience be considered when DfE next updates relevant guidance, and ask when such updates are planned and whether there will be a consultation. Or whether the minister agrees that the conduct you set out in your letter is inconsistent with DfE guidance. Ooh, you could also ask if the minister has met with eg Safer schools alliance, whose advice you have found helpful.

On reflection, I think perhaps write a separate letter to Kemi Badenoch with questions tailored to her portfolio (“as equalities minister, will you press for clearer guidance for schools”) and say to each that you have written to the other, rather than cc’ing. That way you maximise the chance of getting two responses.

Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 21:45

Fabbo!

I was imagining having to hoick out the fountain pen, and find some nice quality paper!

Thank you, and also for the email addresses.

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Princessglittery · 06/03/2024 21:33

Email is absolutely fine and probably preferred.

Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 21:31

That is wonderful!

I did mean, do I need to write a paper and ink letter, with an envelope and stamp?

If email is acceptable, that'll be the way I go.

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Princessglittery · 06/03/2024 21:08

@Vebrithien You can email, all emails should have the ability to cc people in ( sorry if I am being too basic). You could draft a letter and attach it to the email in that case you put “cc: name” under your name at the bottom of the letter after your signature.

Kemi Badenock’s email is [email protected]
Damien Hinds’ email is [email protected]

Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 20:56

Coffeestain · 06/03/2024 20:45

“Does anyone know of anyone else we can contact?“

You could and write to the schools minister at DfE (Damien hinds) cc-ing the Equalities minister (kemi badenoch) - it would not solve your problem but every piece of evidence about how schools are behaving will help inform longer term policy making. Your letter will be read and the response may set out government policy which you can then quote further in your correspondence with school.

sorry you are going through this.

Thank you.

Would I need to send an actual letter? If so, how does one cc in another person?

I could easily turn my potted history that I typed up last week, into a letter.

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Coffeestain · 06/03/2024 20:45

“Does anyone know of anyone else we can contact?“

You could and write to the schools minister at DfE (Damien hinds) cc-ing the Equalities minister (kemi badenoch) - it would not solve your problem but every piece of evidence about how schools are behaving will help inform longer term policy making. Your letter will be read and the response may set out government policy which you can then quote further in your correspondence with school.

sorry you are going through this.

SelfPortraitWithHagstone · 06/03/2024 19:49

What an absolute fucking shambles - bon courage and well done to you all. Hope it doesn't get that far but it does sound like they are laying themselves open to legal action...

Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 19:35

The Head is an ineffective figurehead, who was helicoptered into post, and also looks after another school locally.

The DepHead has been here for at least the last 10 years, and was acting head for a while, whilst the position was advertised for when the previous head didn't return from maternity leave.

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ScrollingLeaves · 06/03/2024 19:30

“However, as we discussed if you have fundamental issues with our curriculum or the way we teach them other local schools are available."

Now she is saying this gender identity teaching is part of the curriculum.

Earlier this year they assured you they would let parents know ahead about any such teaching. The DoE says parents should be shown teaching materials they ask to see. The school did not show you what they are now saying is the curriculum.

Where, oh where, is the Head?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 06/03/2024 18:48

Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 17:51

"It would be really helpful if you could email me with anything else you recall that you said so I can complete a balanced investigation into concerns raised by (...)."

Tbh, as the Dep H is escalating / spiralling I think I'd take a step backwards and ponder. Speak to Sex matters as they've access to lawyers. I'm not a lawyer but the DH is all over the place and conflating so many issues /procedures.

Allegedly criticising the school based on another parent complaining? Ok - where's the evidence?
An investigation into parents under what policy? I'm genuinely not sure how a school investigates parents (as opposed to an incident involving children or a member of staff) but the latter are covered by very clear procedures and as the DH appears to have jumped to punishment before completing their "investigation", I suspect they're tying themselves in procedural knots.

Illegally barring the parent from the school. What are the legal grounds?

Ask for clarification about the safeguarding comment. Suggesting the parent is a safeguarding risk? Or is the parent at risk from an unhinged adult in the school?
Potential religious discrimination against parents for their religious beliefs?

At the heart of this is the school using potentially age inappropriate, politically biased materials despite previous reassurances to the contrary.

But... if this was my child's school I'd consider finding someone who could work with you all and the school to help mediate? Somebody senior needs to step in and remove the DH from this mess she's got herself in - much harder as it's a MAT I know.

Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 18:13

Yarp, I know @Ereshkigalangcleg

The DH of one of us, is a lawyer.

Sadly, the school doesn't know, or doesn't seem to recognise it.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/03/2024 18:09

Defamation is a civil matter, not a police matter.

Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 18:07

Perhaps.

The DepHead goes by Ms. We have no idea of her home background. We have wondered if she has 'skin in the game' so to speak.

I found it interesting that the message from the DepHead to the banned parent, did not mention at all, that the banned parent holds her views due to her religious beliefs. As does the banned parents DH.

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Gettingmadderallthetime · 06/03/2024 17:59

@Vebrithien "... the DepHead has also send out the parental code of conduct again (to all parents) with the threat of reporting any defamatory comments to the police."

Is the Dep Head scared of some other parent and maybe has given (rash) assurances to this other parent? They want to stop conversations on this school-wide.This threat needs to be mentioned and an example of what they consider defamatory would be good. Facts are not defamatory.

This calling someone by phone rather than emailing suggests that they may either have

a) thought that this parent would have agreed with them if singled out from the rest of the bolshy herd. Targeting a perceived weaker/friendlier member of the group. Or

b) be trying to sway/remove/target this person in particular perhaps because they are extra influential with/connected with other parents?

Is it possibly the case that the DepHead started the conversation by wanting to persuade your friend for one of the reasons above and ended up losing it? This phone call followed the milder message from your group and a gap of 3 weeks (if I have understood) so perhaps the DepHead was taken by surprise that far from going off the boil on this the group was in a white hot rage.

c) they could have an alcohol problem ...

Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 17:53

Apparently, two children complained.

This is all she has heard.

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Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 17:52

"Please do adhere to dropping off and collecting at the office until further notice to safeguard yourself and (...) who have shared their concerns."

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Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 17:51

"It would be really helpful if you could email me with anything else you recall that you said so I can complete a balanced investigation into concerns raised by (...)."

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Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 17:49

"In line with our parental code of conduct you have a responsibility to ‘respect the ethos, vision and values of our school’ and if you have any concerns follow the procedures outlined. However, as we discussed if you have fundamental issues with our curriculum or the way we teach them other local schools are available."

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Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 17:46

"Another parent has shared that you were speaking about the school negatively and about how much we teach “transgender/LGBTQ+"

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 06/03/2024 17:40

Schools bar parents for serious acts - usually of aggression / violence. In all my years in LAs and schools I've never come across a parent being barred for questioning the school about the curriculum (and I've been involved in a number of cases). The exception to the aggression rule was where a parent was a sex offender but that's dealt with in a multi agency way where risk is assessed.
It's a massive over reach by the school.

I'd be asking for the school to put in writing:
What are their reasons for barring the parent from the school?
Assuming that the conversation (initiated by the DH) was "polite" is the ban because the parent has expressed concerns about inappropriate materials used by the schools?
Or is it that the DH disapproves of the parent's views?
Or something else?

Ask them to write and explain what legislation they are using to bar the parent from normal parental communication / interaction with staff?

What has been said to the child (if anything) by the school to explain why their parent has been banned?

The DH appears to be bullying a child and parent in order to coerce them to accept the DH's view on transgender ideology. Parents should never be stopped from raising concerns about a school breaching its requirement to be politically neutral and /or using age inappropriate materials with children.

Vebrithien · 06/03/2024 17:22

It was the Assistant Head who phoned me, the only male on the SLT, but the DepHead has also send out the parental code of conduct again (to all parents) with the threat of reporting any defamatory comments to the police.

I have my suspicions that the Assistant Head, who seems like a genuinely nice chap, with his own Christian faith, was delegated the job to contact me, as the only bloke, and as the most junior of the SLT.

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