Page 25 | Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

Vebrithien · 2023-02-01T12:51:53+00:00

Well, here we are, with a whole new thread! https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head?page=10&reply=123546552 Thank you all, so so much for the support you have given me. I am currently working on the draft of the message I want to send. Long story short, DD's primary school displays posters by No Outsiders, showing the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Sex as been replaced with gender. I have raised this with the Head, the assistant Head, and the Deputy Head (DepHead, as DH just doesn't work here). I have been reassured that sex is synonymous with gender in law, and, through an email stream, No Outsiders have reassured the school that it is deliberate, gender is easier to teach children than sex, especially as some will snigger at sex. Oh, and teaching that gender is the difference between boys and girls, it makes it easier to then explain gender reassignment later on. I'll put the message from the DepHead and No Outsiders here, and also my reply, in its current state. Thank you all again!

Original poster

Vebrithien · 24/02/2023 17:34

I've had a a few thumbs up to the messages, a couple of messages of support on the whole year group chat, and two private messages, both offering to email the school and join my name under a formal complaint.

There are already 8 of us in the group I started an hour ago, and one of my friends is sharing my original messages with a different year group.

OP posts:

SinnerBoy · 24/02/2023 17:26

Bloody good job, @Vebrithien - have you had any replies to the What's App, yet?

Princessglittery · 24/02/2023 17:22

👏

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/02/2023 17:05

Well done OP. Just like KJK, you're giving parents a voice and a chance to speak up ijn the face of the outrageous gaslighting of a generation of children by a misogynistic, reality denying, dangerous mob dressed up as "education advisers".

Original poster

Vebrithien · 24/02/2023 17:01

Poster

Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

OP posts:

CallMeVal · 24/02/2023 17:00

Well done!@Vebrithien

Excellent work and I hope you will now feel more supported and the school will listen to your very reasonable concerns!

Original poster

Vebrithien · 24/02/2023 17:00

Whilst I agree that the message of inclusion and tolerance are important ones, one of the fundamental British values is the rule of law. This poster misrepresents the law.

OP posts:

Original poster

Vebrithien · 24/02/2023 16:58

This was the message I sent to the year WhatsApp group:

This will be long, but I feel it is worth speaking out. It relates to the questionnaire sent out via Class Dojo today, and particularly the question about the protected characteristics.

Our school uses resources from an external provider (called No Outsiders), which misrepresent the Equality Act 2010.

On these posters (by the infant dining hall, and the junior hall), 8 out of the 9 protected characteristics are stated, word for word as they are in law. These include words such as; sexual orientation, gender reassignment, race

The 9th characteristic, which in law is "sex" has been replaced with "gender", which has no definition in law.

I initially raised this as a concern, as it is a legal requirement of schools to teach the Equality Act, and something that Ofsted looks for. The initial response was that the school thought the wording of the law was gender. Then, that the poster doesn't explicitly say that it is the Equality Act. Given that it has 9 categories on it, of which 8 exactly match the law, and only the wording of sex has been changed, I find this disingenuous.

Eventually, I received an email from the school, quoting the external provider, that they know that the poster should say sex, but they think it is easier to explain gender to children, and that the external provider states by using gender, it is then easier to explain gender reassignment.

They do not mention how they then explain sexual orientation (a protected characteristic) if the word sex is not used.

There is no legal definition of gender, and definitions of gender by the UK government, Stonewall and the WHO differ, but all three agree that gender has a social and cultural understanding. This directly discriminates against children and parents from a different race, culture or ethnicity (one of the 9 protected characteristics), as they may have different understandings of gender stereotypes.

Also, as there is no one definition of gender, it is difficult to see how it can clearly be taught to children with SEND (another protected characteristic), who have an exceptional need for clear and definable language.

I am awaiting a response from the school to my concerns. I have provided the school with references and resources that help explain my concern.

I am very happy to forward on any resources.

I will also attach a copy of the posters shown.

OP posts:

Original poster

Vebrithien · 24/02/2023 16:57

A small update.

I have heard nothing yet back from the school.

I went to the Posie Parker support act, in Trowbridge today, which was wonderful.

Whilst I was there, a message came through from the school about a bullying and inclusion questionnaire that they would like us to fill in.

One of the question asks "how confident do you feel that the school protects children and parents with a protected characteristic".

I have not yet filled it it, but it felt like it was time. So I have outed myself on the WhatsApp group for my DD's year. I'll put below what I posted.

At school collection, I have a group of 5 women come up to me, and tell me how relieved they were to hear what I had to say. One is a member of the PTA, and has other parents who have been worried and complaining to her about the ethos as the school.

I've also had a few positive messages replying to my initial post.

So. I've just set up a private WhatsApp group for us, where we can coordinate our plans, and I can share all of the resources that I have collected.

I'm shaking, but utterly jubilant. One lady cried with relief.

Women's rights matter. Rise up, rise up and rise up again!

OP posts:

ScrollingLeaves · 08/02/2023 16:51

Yes, you did all you could and as much as was advisable for one letter, especially to this particular deputy head who may try to ‘close down’ all discussion.

Princessglittery · 08/02/2023 16:25

@Vebrithien I should have been clearer I was not expecting you to include this. Your letter was excellent and stuck to the key points.

Original poster

Vebrithien · 08/02/2023 14:41

Preaching to the converted here!

Of course, I agree with you.

But, as a PP on my last thread said, my letter was going to be an A4 ream long, if I included everything I was concerned about...

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Emotionalsupportviper · 08/02/2023 13:39

Princessglittery · 08/02/2023 12:23

@DarkOphelia @ScrollingLeaves you are right.

I don’t want to derail this thread but I am making a pertinent point.

I have heard a number of times in relation to self ID people saying we don’t legislate for the 1 person/the bad apples etc. RMW said something along these lines when giving evidence to the Scottish Gmt Committee.

This is untrue, we do legislate for exactly that e.g. DBS, gun laws, Health & Safety Regulations, Security etc. It’s one of the reasons the GRRA is poor legislation, it doesn’t require accurate data collection and robust processes to ensure all identities/genders a person has used in their life are automatically assessed when they apply for a DBS Certificate.

I would like to see legislation in place that requires the government and public sector to be required to collect and maintain data of all changes of name, identity, gender etc. to ensure DBS checks are as thorough as they can be.

Hear, hear.

Legislation is intended to control the few law-breakers - the law-abiding majority don't need it.

DarkOphelia · 08/02/2023 13:36

Princessglittery · 08/02/2023 12:23

@DarkOphelia @ScrollingLeaves you are right.

I don’t want to derail this thread but I am making a pertinent point.

I have heard a number of times in relation to self ID people saying we don’t legislate for the 1 person/the bad apples etc. RMW said something along these lines when giving evidence to the Scottish Gmt Committee.

This is untrue, we do legislate for exactly that e.g. DBS, gun laws, Health & Safety Regulations, Security etc. It’s one of the reasons the GRRA is poor legislation, it doesn’t require accurate data collection and robust processes to ensure all identities/genders a person has used in their life are automatically assessed when they apply for a DBS Certificate.

I would like to see legislation in place that requires the government and public sector to be required to collect and maintain data of all changes of name, identity, gender etc. to ensure DBS checks are as thorough as they can be.

It's becoming clear that the concept of "equalities" and "inclusion" is being stretched (or queered) to cover a range of behaviours that challenge all manner of understood tenets involving protection and safety in society.

It is almost as though there is both an exoteric and an esoteric meaning to many "equalities" utterances now. That's why the phrasing stuck out to me as a red flag.

Most people who see it will only read the exoteric fluffy-bunny meaning, and think of the rainbow school family where pupils are all valued and supported. They won't see the esoteric wolf that lurks in the shadows.

Ask why the statement is not "every pupil is welcome at our school", or "every child is welcome at our school"?

Of course, the statement can't say that because that phrasing exposes the sentiment behind the statement as problematic. Every pupil or pupil cannot be welcome because the statement would then fly in the face of the school's catchment/entrance policy and cause issues if the governors felt an pupil needed support they could not provide and required referral to a specialist unit.

No, it says "everyone." And "everyone" includes adults.

It's almost like some sort of psy-op. Everyone is welcome, little Johnny, everyone. Even if you don't like them or they are mean to you or they make you feel scared.

Once you start to see these covert meanings, they are everywhere with this ideology.

Shelefttheweb · 08/02/2023 12:55

Princessglittery · 08/02/2023 12:23

@DarkOphelia @ScrollingLeaves you are right.

I don’t want to derail this thread but I am making a pertinent point.

I have heard a number of times in relation to self ID people saying we don’t legislate for the 1 person/the bad apples etc. RMW said something along these lines when giving evidence to the Scottish Gmt Committee.

This is untrue, we do legislate for exactly that e.g. DBS, gun laws, Health & Safety Regulations, Security etc. It’s one of the reasons the GRRA is poor legislation, it doesn’t require accurate data collection and robust processes to ensure all identities/genders a person has used in their life are automatically assessed when they apply for a DBS Certificate.

I would like to see legislation in place that requires the government and public sector to be required to collect and maintain data of all changes of name, identity, gender etc. to ensure DBS checks are as thorough as they can be.

Wasn’t this meant to be the whole point of the named person scheme? Or is NS suggesting some other motive for the legislation to gathering information on all children in Scotland?

eurochick · 08/02/2023 12:53

Very good letter. I also wonder how one is supposed to learn about sexual orientation if one is not first taught what sex is.

Adding in the point about discrimination is very helpful. Let's face it, that is in reality going to be the discrimination many of those children will face as they go through life.

ScrollingLeaves · 08/02/2023 12:29

Yes, all teachers have a DBS check because this is, precisely, to look for the ‘one bad apple’ among thousands.

And, no, everyone is not necessarily welcome.

Princessglittery · 08/02/2023 12:23

@DarkOphelia @ScrollingLeaves you are right.

I don’t want to derail this thread but I am making a pertinent point.

I have heard a number of times in relation to self ID people saying we don’t legislate for the 1 person/the bad apples etc. RMW said something along these lines when giving evidence to the Scottish Gmt Committee.

This is untrue, we do legislate for exactly that e.g. DBS, gun laws, Health & Safety Regulations, Security etc. It’s one of the reasons the GRRA is poor legislation, it doesn’t require accurate data collection and robust processes to ensure all identities/genders a person has used in their life are automatically assessed when they apply for a DBS Certificate.

I would like to see legislation in place that requires the government and public sector to be required to collect and maintain data of all changes of name, identity, gender etc. to ensure DBS checks are as thorough as they can be.

ScrollingLeaves · 08/02/2023 11:50

DarkOphelia · Today 11:36
I am late to this, but I feel uncomfortable at the statement on the poster that "everyone is welcome at our school."

I agree. As a society we want to beak down prejudice, but on the other hand our ‘wiring’ to be suspicious of anything unknown or different is to keep us safe.

There was a little boy who escaped being killed by Myra Hindley because he thought there was something ‘off’ about the way she wasn’t acting the way someone normally treats a guest, so he just left.

DarkOphelia · 08/02/2023 11:36

I am late to this, but I feel uncomfortable at the statement on the poster that "everyone is welcome at our school."

Actually, no. Not everyone is welcome at the school, are they? You can't just turn up and wander around, willy nilly, as a member of the public. People who have no valid reason to be at the school aren't supposed to be there.

And likewise, there's a lot of types of people who definitely are not welcome at the school: anyone on the sex offenders register, for a start.

It stands testament to the way this ideology has developed and run riot across the state and civic institutions that I immediately find the poster statement to be suspicious. It smells of slowly chiselling away at children's internal sense of what is appropriate and what is not, chipping away at boundaries, eroding safeguards.

You subject children to enough of these sentiments and what you end up with is a seven year old not reporting a strange person wandering the corridor because "everyone is welcome at our school" and the seven year old fears being told off for not being "welcoming."

Original poster

Vebrithien · 08/02/2023 10:58

Oh well done @bignosebignose .

I agree, it is nerve wracking.

You do have the right to know what is being taught, if you are in England.

I'd recommend looking at the Safe Schools Alliance page on advice for parents. They have some resources to use.

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bignosebignose · 08/02/2023 10:44

This thread has given me the final nudge to contact DS's school and ask for details of a recent lesson on this topic. I did it a couple of years ago when DD was being taught about it but allowed myself to be fobbed off with a phone call. This time I'm going to push to see the lesson materials used in class. I feel slightly ill with nerves about sending the first request.

Yalz · 07/02/2023 17:33

Excellent, @Vebrithien, very well done and thank you for taking this on.

Thank you also to other posters on this thread for their practical and sensible comments.

HagoftheNorth · 07/02/2023 17:17

Very well done Veb and thank you again for being brave enough to take this on. V interested to hear what happens next. We’ll all be right behind you 🍰☕️

MrsMaxDeWinter · 07/02/2023 17:14

Very well done.