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Original poster

Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

736 replies

Vebrithien · 01/02/2023 12:51

Well, here we are, with a whole new thread!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head?page=10&reply=123546552

Thank you all, so so much for the support you have given me.

I am currently working on the draft of the message I want to send.

Long story short, DD's primary school displays posters by No Outsiders, showing the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Sex as been replaced with gender.

I have raised this with the Head, the assistant Head, and the Deputy Head (DepHead, as DH just doesn't work here). I have been reassured that sex is synonymous with gender in law, and, through an email stream, No Outsiders have reassured the school that it is deliberate, gender is easier to teach children than sex, especially as some will snigger at sex.

Oh, and teaching that gender is the difference between boys and girls, it makes it easier to then explain gender reassignment later on.

I'll put the message from the DepHead and No Outsiders here, and also my reply, in its current state.

Thank you all again!

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Emotionalsupportviper · 25/02/2023 19:10

*pervy, not perky - though I bet they are blidd7 perky1

Emotionalsupportviper · 25/02/2023 19:10

Apologies @bignosebignose - you are right, of course.

But women tend to be on the front line

One of the things that infuriates me is the area of women's sport, when people say "Women should just refuse to participate/ boycott the events etc" when it's not so simple for female athletes many of whom would have funding withdrawn if they tried to do this unilaterally.

What is needed is for ALL athletes of BOTH sexes to protest - don't put all of the burden onto women. Women's sports must not become a dumping ground for mediocre male athletes (or perky ones who insist on changing with the girls).

bignosebignose · 25/02/2023 19:03

Emotionalsupportviper · 25/02/2023 18:58

Not trying to be flippant @Vebrithien - you're doing an amazing job.

I hope that if my kids had still been at school I'd have had your courage and determination - we so need people like you. We can stand behind you, but only you mothers and grandmothers with children still at school can challenge this idiocy.

And fathers and grandfathers (and brothers and uncles).

Emotionalsupportviper · 25/02/2023 18:58

Not trying to be flippant @Vebrithien - you're doing an amazing job.

I hope that if my kids had still been at school I'd have had your courage and determination - we so need people like you. We can stand behind you, but only you mothers and grandmothers with children still at school can challenge this idiocy.

Emotionalsupportviper · 25/02/2023 18:56

dimorphism · 25/02/2023 00:04

Given the multiple definitions, I don't know how you'd even go about segregating by gender. Aren't there 500 different genders? That seems expensive if you need a separate dormitory for each (I don't think it'll be that many kids on the trip).

And all the cat-gender kids would be hissing and spitting for a bed on top of the radiator . . .

And the fae gender would be demanding those spotty toadstools to kip under . . .

The two-spirit gender would be drunk all the time, I expect, and the pangenders would doubtless sleep on a shelf in the kitchen - that would cause hygiene problems.

The implications are endless.

Nope - stick to boring old binary sex divisions. We can both define them and recognise them at a glance 99.999% of the time. SO much simpler.

LoveIceland · 25/02/2023 18:38

Amazing and inspirational, well done you. I’ve been following all your posts. I worked in a school last year that had one of those posters but I was a temp so gritted my teeth and bore it, cowardly I’m afraid. But I’m on alert for anything like that appearing in my kids’ school and feel galvanised to follow your lead if necessary. So far nothing, thankfully, but I’m worried about local secondary schools in the future…

artant · 25/02/2023 18:00

Well done, @Vebrithien , so pleased you’re getting so much support from other parents!

ValerieDoonican · 25/02/2023 14:02

👏👏👏👏👏 to @Vebrithien and 💪💪💪💪💪 and very best of luck to @dimorphism

rabbitwoman · 25/02/2023 10:36

This is amazing, Vebrithien!!

It has changed so much since we have been empowered to speak out.

Xxxx

Original poster
Vebrithien · 25/02/2023 10:18

There are two more emails being hopefully written this weekend, by ladies in our group.

I need a good name for this WhatsApp group.

Any suggestions?

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Original poster
Vebrithien · 25/02/2023 01:06

😄

No woman is an island. She's a fucking pissed off human.

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Princessglittery · 25/02/2023 01:04

Brilliant

Original poster
Vebrithien · 25/02/2023 01:02

We stand out, as an island

Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured
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Original poster
Vebrithien · 25/02/2023 01:00

@Princessglittery yes! 4 of us have signed it, and passed it on.

We are a little patch of orange, in a yellow background. Possibly aided by our utterly useless and dismissive MP.

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Princessglittery · 25/02/2023 00:42

@Vebrithien not to hijack your thread but wondered if you think it is appropriate could you let your WhatsApp group know about the parliamentary petition. Mumsnet rules don’t allow me to link directly www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4722618-petition-to-update-the-equality-act-thread-2?page=6&reply=124172200

dimorphism · 25/02/2023 00:12

@Vebrithien thank you, and thank you for being an inspiration. As you know, standing up for science and fairness isn't easy in this day and age and you've inspired me to do so.

I'm off to bed now!

Original poster
Vebrithien · 25/02/2023 00:07

@dimorphism yes, please, please use anything I've written, that will help you.

I've spent weeks researching this. I've looked from the point of view of the DforE, Ofsted, my local council, the policies that DD's school uses.

Whatever you can use, take!

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dimorphism · 25/02/2023 00:04

Given the multiple definitions, I don't know how you'd even go about segregating by gender. Aren't there 500 different genders? That seems expensive if you need a separate dormitory for each (I don't think it'll be that many kids on the trip).

Original poster
Vebrithien · 25/02/2023 00:03

I have started, secretly, changing our assessment spreadsheet from gender to sex, where I work.

Sex is the characteristic we are judged against by Ofsted. So I'll damn well refer to it as sex!

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dimorphism · 25/02/2023 00:02

Ooops it's too late - they'll be discriminating if they segregate by gender rather than sex.

dimorphism · 25/02/2023 00:01

I am absolutely nicking your excellent bit in your letter about the shifting sands of the definition of gender @Vebrithien - hope that's ok!! In fact I might lead with that and a questioning approach rather than what I want to do which is point out the legal liability to them if any child is sexually assaulted or gets pregnant in mixed sex dormitories and that they're discriminating against multiple protected characteristics if they segregate by sex rather than gender.

If they asked the parents if they wanted single sex or single gender dormitories and provided the various definitions of gender vs the scientific definition of sex it would be 99% at least who wanted single sex. (there might the the odd parent whose brain has fallen out)

Original poster
Vebrithien · 25/02/2023 00:01

dimorphism · 24/02/2023 23:57

The school is about 1/4-1/3 children from Muslim families so they certainly haven't thought through the impact on the protected characteristic of religion of their 'gender based' dormitories.

I'm hoping it's just a case of someone writing gender when they mean sex, but I will make them spell it out.

Yes!

Using gender rather than sex discriminates against the protected characteristic of religion.

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dimorphism · 24/02/2023 23:57

The school is about 1/4-1/3 children from Muslim families so they certainly haven't thought through the impact on the protected characteristic of religion of their 'gender based' dormitories.

I'm hoping it's just a case of someone writing gender when they mean sex, but I will make them spell it out.

Original poster
Vebrithien · 24/02/2023 23:51

Thanks everyone. You have been an unutterably amazing support and sounding board here.

Today felt like a good day.

@dimorphism, good luck. As I have pointed out to DD's school, there is no one definition of gender.

So, how are they planning on segregating the dorms?? Who's (whose?) definition are they using? What happens if they have a student from a different culture understands gender differently?

What about the right to privacy and decency of the two sexes?

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dimorphism · 24/02/2023 23:41

Well done @Vebrithien you are utterly brilliant. Thank you from me and on behalf of my daughters too. These days I think that schools deliberately try and divide and conquer parents and actively discourage parents getting together to address these issues - there's real fear among parents about speaking up - so I think the fact you've managed to get a group of likeminded parents together is significant. We've seen from Helen Joyce failing to change the mind of her child's school on gender ideology that even the most articulate lone parent is unlikely to be successful. It's much more difficult for schools to continue with reality denial if several parents speak up.

I do think that most teachers are well meaning but it's just the ideological capture has been very successful, despite the risks to safeguarding, and they needed to divide and conquer parents as part of that because the whole thing is so obviously unsafe for children as well as scientifically wrong.

I've just had a letter from the older daughter's secondary school saying a school trip will have dormitories segregated by 'gender' so I may well need to go unto the breach myself soon. I may well be calling on this thread for useful information and moral support!.