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Original poster

Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

736 replies

Vebrithien · 01/02/2023 12:51

Well, here we are, with a whole new thread!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head?page=10&reply=123546552

Thank you all, so so much for the support you have given me.

I am currently working on the draft of the message I want to send.

Long story short, DD's primary school displays posters by No Outsiders, showing the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Sex as been replaced with gender.

I have raised this with the Head, the assistant Head, and the Deputy Head (DepHead, as DH just doesn't work here). I have been reassured that sex is synonymous with gender in law, and, through an email stream, No Outsiders have reassured the school that it is deliberate, gender is easier to teach children than sex, especially as some will snigger at sex.

Oh, and teaching that gender is the difference between boys and girls, it makes it easier to then explain gender reassignment later on.

I'll put the message from the DepHead and No Outsiders here, and also my reply, in its current state.

Thank you all again!

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Grammarnut · 27/02/2023 14:06

ReadtheReviews · 01/02/2023 13:32

Two thoughts. I think the No Outsiders person may mean the posters rather than the children when he says 'i will correct them'. Secondly, that it is a political statement to say 'you have a gender' since the term has been corrupted to not be synonymous with sex but to mean 50+ different things, none of which you are obligated to 'have' or define yourself with if you aren't woo inclined.

I've read that letter twice. The No Outsiders person means correct the children, i.e. tell them the word is 'gender' not 'sex'. Suggesting he does not mean that is stretching the grammar in the sentence to breaking point.

SinnerBoy · 27/02/2023 13:45

Stop shaking and

Dance

for joy!

Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 13:35

Thank you @mumsnet for removing the same of the school!

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Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 13:25

Feel a bit shaky and teary here.

Didn't really think it was going to work, but couldn't, in good conscience, leave it unchallenged.

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SinnerBoy · 27/02/2023 13:24

What a very good result! I'm pleased for you.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/02/2023 13:22

Well done OP!

Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 13:21

Reported, am an idiot, thanks for letting me know. Feel free to report too, they might see it quicker?

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TeenDivided · 27/02/2023 13:17

@Vebrithien Your long post includes name of school, maybe ask MN to redact it?

bellac11 · 27/02/2023 13:16

Emotionalsupportviper · 25/02/2023 18:56

And all the cat-gender kids would be hissing and spitting for a bed on top of the radiator . . .

And the fae gender would be demanding those spotty toadstools to kip under . . .

The two-spirit gender would be drunk all the time, I expect, and the pangenders would doubtless sleep on a shelf in the kitchen - that would cause hygiene problems.

The implications are endless.

Nope - stick to boring old binary sex divisions. We can both define them and recognise them at a glance 99.999% of the time. SO much simpler.

Show quote history

You forgot the translender. All the fat people who identify as being skinny.

Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 13:16

There are a group of 8 of us now, who are going to carry this on, and look into what is being taught in RSE, specifically with regards to changing sex, and how gender is taught without stereotypes.

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Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 13:15

However, I do honestly believe that making the legal and educational points carried far more weight than all the possible emotion I could have mustered.

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Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 13:14

I will, of course, be asking to see the new posters : )

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Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 13:14

This was the weaselly message from the DepHead

Dear Veb
Thank you for your comprehensive email.
Apologies for the delay in my response - I have sought further advice and clarification from BANES and DfE and I am awaiting information from the Trust. Some of the information is slightly conflicting and even their terminology has been changeable!
In the meantime, we have removed the 4 'No Outsiders' posters across our school sites until we have sourced a suitable replacement.

Thank you for sending the idea poster from the SSA.
As you say, it clearly shows the protected characteristics and references the legal definitions under the Equality Act 2010, however, we do have some reservations about the arguably stereotypical representations of some of the images on this poster and we will seek further advice on this.

Since our last correspondence, the teachers have had training on Equalities including the Equality Act 2010 and PSED; the school has had whole staff diversity training recommended by the DfE and several members of staff including myself have attended BANES training regarding protected characteristics. These were all in the school diary before your concern was raised but I wanted to inform you that we continue to be proactive in our approach towards these matters before and since our last communication.
We do not intend to be political or partisan and we try our hardest to be balanced in presenting opposing viewpoints. We simply want to ensure that inclusion and diversity are the very foundation of our school life and curriculum, and represent all the stakeholders at the school.. In line with guidance, these protected characteristics are not taught as a stand-alone unit and are embedded in our curriculum and we do always follow statutory guidance and keep up to date with guidance changes. We do review our curriculum offer regularly and value feedback from parents. We do, of course, listen and act upon feedback but we do have to be very balanced in accepting feedback from parents as you can imagine we have many parents contacting us about a variety of subjects that are occasionally political, controversial and complicated. We have had requests asking us to take other viewpoints into consideration when we teach or which texts we should and shouldn't use, and how and what we spend money/donations and we need to ensure that this used to inform what we do as educators but not dictate it as we must always follow appropriate guidance.
Thanks again for raising this matter with us and we thank you for your continued support.
If you do have any further concerns or queries please do not hesitate to contact me so I can help further.

I will let you know when I have received further advice from the Trust.
Many thanks
Kind regards

DepHead

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TWETMIRF · 27/02/2023 13:13

Woohoo!

Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 13:11

#THE POSTERS ARE GONE!!!!!!!

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Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 13:10

#THE POSTERS ARE GONE!!!!!!!

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ScrollingLeaves · 26/02/2023 22:30

Vebrithien
I just saw this on the Tate website and thought you’d be interested to show other parents as they are including “sex” as opposed to gender very clearly:
Careers for all
We strive to ensure that opportunities to work and develop at Tate are open to all. We treat all job applications equally, regardless of age, disability, gender identity or gender expression, race, ethnicity, religion or belief, sex, sexual orientation or any other equality characteristic
www.tate.org.uk/about-us/working-at-tate/diversity-inclusion

The Tate (Liverpool) is being very annoying and wrong imo putting on DQSH and publishing a school resource full of gender identity ideology, so they could not be more into the whole business of TQ+ yet they are still saying sex is sex.

(The Tate is a Stonewall Champion.)

ScrollingLeaves · 25/02/2023 22:53

How frustrating Veb.

At least your letter got positive responses from the other parents too though. It could have been that most just thought gender means sex anyway, so what is the problem. It really is very good that’s not what happened .

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Vebrithien · 25/02/2023 22:29

ScrollingLeaves · 25/02/2023 21:20

Those other parents in the group are confused. It would not be less inclusive if it says Sex, it would be more so!

There is Gender Reassignment already. If they repeat that ‘Gender’ as a characteristic instead of sex, where does that leave sex?

Oh I know that!

But, as I'm not on that group, I can't reply.

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ScrollingLeaves · 25/02/2023 21:20

Those other parents in the group are confused. It would not be less inclusive if it says Sex, it would be more so!

There is Gender Reassignment already. If they repeat that ‘Gender’ as a characteristic instead of sex, where does that leave sex?

bignosebignose · 25/02/2023 21:06

Poking around a bit more on our local primary school’s website, they seem to set a fair amount of store around ”sexuality identity” & “gender,” as well as the aforementioned ”gender identity” - but still very little around the actual PCs of sex and gender reassignment.

Although on a page where they include gender, they have a link to a government site which refers to EA PCs including sex. Even if you are in a forgiving mood, which I’m not especially, it’s dismally sloppy use of language.

Original poster
Vebrithien · 25/02/2023 20:31

Well today I've had one lady leave the group, and two from a different year group join.

One of the other year group chats had exploded, very much of the view that that inclusion and being kind is the most important thing. My friend who reposted my messages there, is feeling in the thick of it a little.

The law says sex. That is what the DforE says must be taught.

Be as inclusive as you like, but the law must be followed.

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Emotionalsupportviper · 25/02/2023 19:25

*playing

Emotionalsupportviper · 25/02/2023 19:24

When the actual bald reality of this gender bollox is made clear, most people of both sexes are against it.

The truth is still very much under wraps - and people don't believe it when they hear it because it is so obviously ridiculous! Thank God for that evil Scottish rapist plating the system - it's raised awareness a lot.

bignosebignose · 25/02/2023 19:16

Oh I totally agree, at the moment it’s women carrying most of the burden, as with so many things. But a) men really need to get involved and b) plenty seem to be waking up to this. Helen Joyce observed that men with daughters particularly tend to get it, and be willing to get involved, to challenge schools and other institutions, to spread the word among their friends, etc.

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