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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

736 replies

Vebrithien · 01/02/2023 12:51

Well, here we are, with a whole new thread!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head?page=10&reply=123546552

Thank you all, so so much for the support you have given me.

I am currently working on the draft of the message I want to send.

Long story short, DD's primary school displays posters by No Outsiders, showing the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Sex as been replaced with gender.

I have raised this with the Head, the assistant Head, and the Deputy Head (DepHead, as DH just doesn't work here). I have been reassured that sex is synonymous with gender in law, and, through an email stream, No Outsiders have reassured the school that it is deliberate, gender is easier to teach children than sex, especially as some will snigger at sex.

Oh, and teaching that gender is the difference between boys and girls, it makes it easier to then explain gender reassignment later on.

I'll put the message from the DepHead and No Outsiders here, and also my reply, in its current state.

Thank you all again!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
ScrollingLeaves · 10/03/2023 15:09

PaperCorners · Today 14:49
This was a tick-box PR exercise only. There is no involvement.

If that was a while ago it may be worth having another go?Gillian Keegan made it clear that parents should be able to see 'materials' and if this involved resources provided by third parties the school could not refuse to disclose them behind issues of copyright

Thank you very much for that advice.

This was very recent in advance of Yr1. We shall see next year.

I’ll watch the programme.

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/03/2023 15:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SinnerBoy · 10/03/2023 15:07

Well, it sounds like you've had a really supportive and productive confab. Good for you all and good luck with it going forward.

Another mum is going to make a formal complaints about a member of staff calling her boy a girl, because he has long hair.

That teacher needs to be sorted out, badly!

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/03/2023 15:00

Boiledbeetle · 10/03/2023 08:41

Don't be stupid. They are women after all.

But best separate them just in case.

One of them might have been listening to her husband

Show quote history

😂😂😂

Lovely little exchange here!

PaperCorners · 10/03/2023 14:49

This was a tick-box PR exercise only. There is no involvement.

If that was a while ago it may be worth having another go?Gillian Keegan made it clear that parents should be able to see 'materials' and if this involved resources provided by third parties the school could not refuse to disclose them behind issues of copyright.

Boiledbeetle · 10/03/2023 14:16

Remembers the new gif function

standing ovation GIF
Boiledbeetle · 10/03/2023 14:16

Applauds.

Stands up.

Applauds till my hands hurt.

Then sticks my fingers in my mouth and whistles loudly.

The school are going to regret telling you to shut up.

🍻

ScrollingLeaves · 10/03/2023 14:14

Vebrithien · Today 12:31

Thank you✨💐

Datun · 10/03/2023 14:11

Vebrithien · 10/03/2023 12:31

Thank you, all.

Our meeting was wonderful. 6 women, round a table, having a sensible, rational discussion. We all have different views and backgrounds, and we all listened to each other.

And, the younger children all played together.

We've decided that the first step is to send a group email (and there are some other parents who will support this, but couldn't make it today) asking to see the resources used for teaching RSE.

We already have a list of concerns, so then if and when things are refused, or we see concerning resources, we will then follow up as a group, escalating as needed.

One of the mums on the PTA is going to scope out the chair of governors. As a PTA representative, she is also going to make a complaint about the heavy handed way the school has clamped down on WhatsApp use.

Another mum is going to make a formal complaints about a member of staff calling her boy a girl, because he has long hair.

I am going to send a few more references, and have read the whole Miriam Cates report, so will extract the interesting points and references for us all.

A fourth mum is going to ask the school about how they are ensuring that gender stereotypes are not perpetuated.

We'll all work together to write the emails.

Phew.

This is what we need. Women working together. Not kept apart and silenced for their concerns, never knowing that other people share these questions.

Couldn't have done this without you all. Even the shit who asserted on my first thread, that the rights of transwoman in female prisons were for the greater good, so women should just give up. Even they helped to formulate this.

The walls, they come tumbling down.

This is brilliant. This is how things happen. The bravery and collaboration of women. This is it.

Vebrithien, you are a pioneer.

ScrollingLeaves · 10/03/2023 13:42

PaperCorners · Today 13:27
Go Vebrithian! And your action group. Sounds like a fantastic meeting. Stronger together and all that.

I don't know if you saw Newscast on BBC1 last night but Gillian Keegan Education Secretary was on. She was asked about RSE teaching in schools following Miriam Cates' report. Buried in her usual semi-coherent waffle was a clear statement that parents have a right to see the materials schools are using. Worth a watch

A school a reception child in my family goes to has definitely pretended to involve the parents.

All that was offered in the way of ‘involvement’, though, was an on-line meeting where the HT spoke giving a list of the teaching headings planned. Then these were posted on line.

They all look good and useful but there is no detail whatsoever about the content and the language that will be used to deliver the teaching.

This was a tick-box PR exercise only. There is no involvement.

I personally think Gillian Keegan has no place in Education.

dimorphism · 10/03/2023 13:36

I'm glad this meeting was so amazing, wish I could have been there!

YOU made this happen @Vebrithien - as you've discovered the forces trying to prevent women from speaking to each other are entrenched in our schools and powerful. You've overcome that. That's quite something.

Kucinghitam · 10/03/2023 13:30

@Vebrithien you are amazing!

PaperCorners · 10/03/2023 13:27

Go Vebrithian! And your action group. Sounds like a fantastic meeting. Stronger together and all that.

I don't know if you saw Newscast on BBC1 last night but Gillian Keegan Education Secretary was on. She was asked about RSE teaching in schools following Miriam Cates' report. Buried in her usual semi-coherent waffle was a clear statement that parents have a right to see the materials schools are using. Worth a watch.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 10/03/2023 13:24

That sounds an excellent meeting.

Original poster
Vebrithien · 10/03/2023 12:31

Thank you, all.

Our meeting was wonderful. 6 women, round a table, having a sensible, rational discussion. We all have different views and backgrounds, and we all listened to each other.

And, the younger children all played together.

We've decided that the first step is to send a group email (and there are some other parents who will support this, but couldn't make it today) asking to see the resources used for teaching RSE.

We already have a list of concerns, so then if and when things are refused, or we see concerning resources, we will then follow up as a group, escalating as needed.

One of the mums on the PTA is going to scope out the chair of governors. As a PTA representative, she is also going to make a complaint about the heavy handed way the school has clamped down on WhatsApp use.

Another mum is going to make a formal complaints about a member of staff calling her boy a girl, because he has long hair.

I am going to send a few more references, and have read the whole Miriam Cates report, so will extract the interesting points and references for us all.

A fourth mum is going to ask the school about how they are ensuring that gender stereotypes are not perpetuated.

We'll all work together to write the emails.

Phew.

This is what we need. Women working together. Not kept apart and silenced for their concerns, never knowing that other people share these questions.

Couldn't have done this without you all. Even the shit who asserted on my first thread, that the rights of transwoman in female prisons were for the greater good, so women should just give up. Even they helped to formulate this.

The walls, they come tumbling down.

OP posts:
dimorphism · 10/03/2023 10:46

Vebrithien · 09/03/2023 23:13

Thank you. You are all very kind (in the nice sense, not the 'BE KIND!" sense).

Student is a 16 yo boy, both taller and wider than I am (which is impressive, I am chunky by nature). He was shouting at me, called me a stupid woman, threatened me, then tried to physically stop me leaving the room.

Also, a colleague was attacked by another male student today. She is apparently a fucking whore. I saw her cowering away from him, as we all came running.

There is such distain for female staff. And this is in a good, well regarded school.

Sorry, just offloading here.

So sorry to hear about this @Vebrithien I hope there have been appropriate consequences for this boy. It's depressing to hear that you've been subject to this sort of behaviour. And people wonder why teachers are leaving in droves...

Well done for keeping on with your school, you are winning slowly and it's such an inspiration. I hope the meet up with the other parents goes well (and that there is cake).

BeatricePortinari · 10/03/2023 10:25

And this WhatsApp crap?? It's a private messaging service, they can't control how you use it.

Tell them to fuck off.
Or at least don't worry about it and ignore them!

BeatricePortinari · 10/03/2023 10:22

I've only just read all this @Vebrithien and just wanted to say what you've done is not a small thing it's huge.

You've made a whole organisation stop and have to think, they've been forced to realise this isn't just a simple Be Kind issue, and they need to think it through. They'll now be aware there's a fight back on and they better be ready. No more just 'arent we lovely and inclusive ' mindlessness.

Everyone of those people will be going home and speaking to friends etc and sharing what's happened, they'll be linking it with things in the media and realising it's getting serious and they need to get serious.

For every parent who knows you've done this they'll realise there are issues in schools. They may not understand, engage in or agree at this point but they know it's not all straight forward anymore.

Then for every woman reading on here you inspire us to do our bit and make our challenge and make us braver.

This is so much more than the posters.
Well done, it's obviously taken a toll but at least you'll always know you're a person who stood up and did the difficult when the time came.

Boiledbeetle · 10/03/2023 08:41

SinnerBoy · 10/03/2023 08:30

Crikey yes, they might start THINKING and get IDEAS !

Don't be stupid. They are women after all.

But best separate them just in case.

One of them might have been listening to her husband

SinnerBoy · 10/03/2023 08:30

Crikey yes, they might start THINKING and get IDEAS !

bignosebignose · 10/03/2023 08:17

I hope you've checked with the school that it's okay for six women to gather in one place, sounds a bit dangerous.

Boiledbeetle · 10/03/2023 07:55

So, unlike here there are actually 6 of you!

Look at you with your own little real life terven of witches!

Original poster
Vebrithien · 10/03/2023 07:31

Thanks, @Boiledbeetle , and @ScrollingLeaves .

The petition threads have been a wonderful balm this week. Your dedication there has been wonderful to see.

I'm off to get DD up, and when she is in school, there are 6 mums meeting up to have a chat, and plan.

Sedition, all the way!

OP posts:
Boiledbeetle · 10/03/2023 02:45

@Vebrithien 🍫

Let's hope the petition getting to 100000 (and beyond!) helps moves things in the right direction.

All everyone can do is try not to let it get to you too much and keep chipping away at it.

The children that are being subjected to this shit won't know the part you played, they may not even realise what schools tried to do to them, but you'll always know you did what you could to protect then from this insanity.

I couldn't find a hug emoji, so have a cat to stroke, they're good for calming frayed nerves

🐈

Princessglittery · 10/03/2023 01:52

@Vebrithien have you seen this twitter post from Maya it links to a Telegraph article about the head of OFSTED warning about RSE lessons.

twitter.com/mforstater/status/1633952829718028288?s=12

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