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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

736 replies

Vebrithien · 01/02/2023 12:51

Well, here we are, with a whole new thread!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head?page=10&reply=123546552

Thank you all, so so much for the support you have given me.

I am currently working on the draft of the message I want to send.

Long story short, DD's primary school displays posters by No Outsiders, showing the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Sex as been replaced with gender.

I have raised this with the Head, the assistant Head, and the Deputy Head (DepHead, as DH just doesn't work here). I have been reassured that sex is synonymous with gender in law, and, through an email stream, No Outsiders have reassured the school that it is deliberate, gender is easier to teach children than sex, especially as some will snigger at sex.

Oh, and teaching that gender is the difference between boys and girls, it makes it easier to then explain gender reassignment later on.

I'll put the message from the DepHead and No Outsiders here, and also my reply, in its current state.

Thank you all again!

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dunBle · 26/04/2025 08:05

Really pleased for you @Vebrithien

Villagetoraiseachild · 25/04/2025 18:25

Well done, a lot can change in a year. Brava!

Vebrithien · 25/04/2025 00:20

Thank you, all.

I have no desire whatsoever to be PM. The DC, my teaching and running keep me busy.

Interestingly, this academic year, I was asked to be part of a DforE research panel, which I've been feeding back on (I teach all sciences and PHSE) and I have been brutally honest about the nefarious impact of GI on our young girls in particular.

I love that spell check went for nefarious.
over negative!

I am happier to speak out in everyday life now.

Weird, posting under this name again, after I was outed. I do wonder if I should just go back now.

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dimorphism · 24/04/2025 23:10

Fantastic news! You did marvellously well and that was all before the SC ruling - you lead the way when it was difficult and stood up for children, something that will not be forgotten on here.

@Vebrithien for PM! (Slightly getting carried away but really, you'd be better than Kier no-apology Starmer).

ScrollingLeaves · 24/04/2025 23:08

That is all good news, and well done again for your efforts at the time when you had to swim against the tide of No Outsider’s and the Deputy Head’s making.

TWETMIRF · 24/04/2025 22:50

Great update, glad things are more positive

Vebrithien · 24/04/2025 22:29

Oh, and a good number of us that raised the issues last year and before, are now weekly volunteers at the school, so we make ourselves useful and valued.

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Vebrithien · 24/04/2025 22:27

I am still around, under a different name (LOTR link).

The DepHead has been on secondment to a different school.
LBQT+ history month passed with one mention (about different types of families) and the dreadful "My Dad's a She" or whatever it was called was not used this year.

The NB Mx left the school in July last year.

Lots of parents have said to me that the feeling around the school is much nicer.

Thank you for asking!

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ScrollingLeaves · 24/04/2025 21:44

If you are still around @Vebrithien what good news there has been recently to back you up.

Xiaoxiong · 15/03/2024 19:00

@Vebrithien I've PMed you a quick message - hope you pick this up and all is well. I had my meeting, which left me none the wiser about what is taught and how, so I'm escalating to the head...who of course I'm not sure if he's captured as well or if he's just delegated to subordinates and not realised what's going on.

I'm really, REALLY hoping that the draft schools guidance is enacted in full after the consultation closed on March 12th. That will make my complaint that much stronger as it identifies gender ideology and notes that it's a highly contentious issue. The draft guidance alone is useful but if it's brought in as written it will solve a lot of issues.

One foot in front of the other.

ATerrorofLeftovers · 12/03/2024 18:32

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 12/03/2024 17:27

they're refusing to allow me to bring anyone else on the basis that each individual parent has to organise their own meeting.

Given how overstretched and understaffed most schools are, you'd think they'd want as many people as possible at the 1 meeting for efficiency. If it were all above board.

Quite. It would serve them right if they got requests for meetings from 20 parents….

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 12/03/2024 17:27

they're refusing to allow me to bring anyone else on the basis that each individual parent has to organise their own meeting.

Given how overstretched and understaffed most schools are, you'd think they'd want as many people as possible at the 1 meeting for efficiency. If it were all above board.

Xiaoxiong · 12/03/2024 16:20

@Vebrithien thinking of you today. I've got a meeting with our dephead and the PSHE teacher coming up and they're refusing to allow me to bring anyone else on the basis that each individual parent has to organise their own meeting. I can't believe their attitude - what are they trying to hide. It's very divide and conquer.

I've spent most of the morning at work printing out all the statutory guidance. I've also discovered they revised their RSE policy earlier this year and quietly posted it in the policies section of their website, but no one I know was consulted on it.

I've also just read the new draft guidance again (and responded to the consultation, which took less than 5 mins!) It will assist enormously if it is enacted in full, as the first sentence says that gender ideology is the "belief that a person can have a gender ...that is different to their biological sex. This is a contested belief. Many people believe this concept is one that reinforces stereotypes and social norms relating to sex."

This sentence alone will assist me HUGELY in my criticism of our school's PSHE lessons whic presents gender ideology as a fact.

SchoolGuidanceQ · 11/03/2024 13:02

Coming late to this - I have your original posts bookmarked as they've been helpful to refer to when our local primary school brought in No Outsiders and I sent some of the useful suggestions to parents I still know at the school - but catching up on latest (book about trans parent for Y4s and then a fellow parent being banned from school grounds, wtf?!). Anyway, have you contacted Sex Matters? While Safe Schools Alliance and Transgender Trend are very much about schools and children and they'll want to help, they often seem quite stretched, I think they have fewer people and funding than Sex Matters.

Also, have you contacted any local councillors? I know you've said your MP is captured and you're trying to work out how to get attention of DfE but if it's a LA school (is it?, or is it an academy) it can be worth contacting councillor for education, and your local councillors.

MsGoodenough · 08/03/2024 19:20

@Xiaoxiong the Christopher winter project is good for primary but not sure if it has secondary. For secondary, EC Publishing resources are better than most, as at least the creator is aware of the Forstater judgment, but it still uses gender identity as if everyone has one.

HagoftheNorth · 08/03/2024 18:42

Veb, I am in awe of your capacity to keep going in the face of this shit. Nothing to offer except moral support, your fight helps us all x

dimorphism · 08/03/2024 12:39

I mean imagine if there were concerns about a particular teacher - safeguarding's supposed to be for everyone - and together a group of parents' information adds up to a safeguarding concern but each individual event could perhaps be explained away. If parents are banned from talking to each other, you'd never get that safeguarding concern being reported.

dimorphism · 08/03/2024 12:37

SinnerBoy · 08/03/2024 06:43

Well, it seems clear that they are failing in their duty to consult with parents, as well as abusing the clause about causing upset. I also assume that they have absolutely no legal right to prevent parents from communicating with each other.

The banned mother should show the advice to a solicitor.

Imagine if teachers could prevent parents from talking to each other? This Deputy Head clearly thinks she has this power.

I suspect some of the clauses in the school policies about social media are illegal e.g. if they're trying to insert that parents talking to each other via Whatsapp is illegal.

Social media policies should be about not posting photos of children participating in school activities on public platforms e.g. twitter or facebook (i.e. safeguarding) rather than preventing parents TALKING which, I would argue is quite an important part of a safeguarding culture, which schools are supposed to have and Ofsted wants.

If you have a closed chat with only parents from the school on it, I do not see how in any non-Orwellian world that could be illegal. It's no different to meeting up at someone's house, no-one else can see it, it's just more accommodating of busy lives.

Xiaoxiong · 08/03/2024 07:20

Quick one for all the teachers out there and for you @Vebrithien - has anyone ever found a scheme of work for primary and year 7&8 PSHE that isn't completely captured? I have a meeting next week with our dep head who asked. I have all the guidance from the likes of transgender trend etc but they are not actually schemes of work and lesson materials.

@Vebrithien I've been reading your thread with mounting horror - I am gearing up for battle with our school (hoping it won't come to that) and I am furious for you and the other parents, this whole thing is so cult-like it's unbelievable. It reminds me of how cults threaten being cast out or disfellowshiped if you step out of line.

SinnerBoy · 08/03/2024 06:43

Well, it seems clear that they are failing in their duty to consult with parents, as well as abusing the clause about causing upset. I also assume that they have absolutely no legal right to prevent parents from communicating with each other.

The banned mother should show the advice to a solicitor.

Vebrithien · 07/03/2024 21:01

Fare thee well.

May we meet again, across the Sundering Seas.

Keep a tight hold of your jewellery, and may there always be a witch or wizard to guide you.

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Vebrithien · 07/03/2024 19:52

I like it!

Currently, the school has not consulted parents and has attempted to prevent us sharing our views (with the school and with other parents).

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ScrollingLeaves · 07/03/2024 19:37

Princessglittery · 07/03/2024 18:41

@Vebrithien That guidance is actually quite helpful
“Schools will be required to consult parents on their relationships education policy and Government thinks it is right that parents can share their views and schools should reflect on them. Disruptive behaviour and intimidation are, however, clearly unacceptable and local authorities, alongside the Department for Education (DfE), will want to support schools facing such a situation.”

It is clear consulting parents is a key element.

‘right that parents can share their views and schools should reflect on them’
This is helpful for the ‘expelled’ parent.

Is this sentence also slightly ambiguous?
Could it perhaps mean not only that parents can share their views [ with the school], but that parents can share their views [ with other parents/other bodies]?

Princessglittery · 07/03/2024 18:41

@Vebrithien That guidance is actually quite helpful
“Schools will be required to consult parents on their relationships education policy and Government thinks it is right that parents can share their views and schools should reflect on them. Disruptive behaviour and intimidation are, however, clearly unacceptable and local authorities, alongside the Department for Education (DfE), will want to support schools facing such a situation.”

It is clear consulting parents is a key element.