Labour's Ben Bradshaw on the attack

And for those still wibbling on the 'but I don't want to look at the nasty bits because it doesn't make me feel nice, and surely you're exaggerating' fence, look at your daughters. Look at the little girls passing in the street.

And reflect that this is happening with self ID not yet dry on the paper and absolutely not a fixed thing in Scotland, and doesn't exist in England yet at all.

Wtf do you think is coming as the next steps for those who believe that female prisoners are just therapeutic aids for their betters if this is permitted to roll on? What do you plan to say to those girls?

A muddle of laziness and good intentions, sentimentality and unwillingness to face up to unpleasantness has caused the body count of women harmed so far - and those women's names would take a hell of a lot longer to read than the names of TQ+ people actually physically harmed and injured this year. Politicians have to start owning this, if you are not standing up to it then you are enabling it and you do hold responsibility.

Sex offenders are being given access to vulnerable, incarcerated women as part of their fucking sentence. This is the fact of it.

This.

It is being viewed as a human right of males to be provided with the bodies of females. And let's be honest about this, it is bodies. No other part of those females is of any interest: no one cares about their thoughts, feelings, identity, intersectionalities, consent - it is merely forced provision of their physical self.

Let that sink in.

Men have apparently a human right to be provided with the non consenting bodies of females if they speak unto the right words and go down the right legal paths.

Where the actual fuck is this in any international law?

When did this get put to the electorate?

And how the fuck can any idiot recognise the truth of this and still repeat the lie that binary sex is not absolutely fundamental to this?

By sheer accident of biological birth, some of us are walking therapy aids (and sex aids in the case of sex offenders) while others are the entitled owners of such provision.

Yes. The other things are disgusting, but there is an element of choice.

In prison you're talking about women who cannot fucking escape.

Sex offenders are being given access to vulnerable, incarcerated women as part of their fucking sentence. This is the fact of it.

And women, over 60% of whom will already have head injuries due to previous abuse, are being forcibly housed with rapists, as part of their sentence.

The out and out misogyny involved in the difference in these two scenarios, is positively inhumane.

It's so disgusting, that I find it incomprehensible.

Yep, Self ID was Tory policy, drawn up by Caroline Noakes, announced by Theresa May and rammed down our throat and into legistlation by Penny Mordaunt amongst others.

If I remember rightly the irony (much worse than that of course) was it was instigated by the then Women and Equalities Committee who chose to prioritise who was more important by consulting with the LGBTQI+ community to help form the proposed reforms.

CysticMeg

To the point, but upsetting too!

It is, it gives me the fucking rage. We're none of these hidebound morons bullied at school? It's bad enough to be pinned in a secluded corner, but the bell comes for lessons and home time, eventually.

The poor women in prison will never get that and they have no chance against grown men.

Toilets, changing rooms and sport are all bad, but fucking prisons. It's making me angrier and angrier.

I do wonder how all these people who believe anyone is a man or a women regardless of what their dna says, think they were born.

Presumably if they wanted to use a sperm donor or donor eggs then they'd want these to come from a biological women for the eggs and a biological man for the sperm? Biology would matter then.

Yep, Self ID was Tory policy, drawn up by Caroline Noakes, announced by Theresa May and rammed down our throat and into legistlation by Penny Mordaunt amongst others.

BB was previously known for his listening, engaging, integrity (low expenses etc), genuine community work...why go so hard in the other direction?

As a former constituent of Mr Bradshaw's I'm so so disappointed @CysticMeg for exactly the reasons you give. And so so exhausted that we have to keep fighting this battle for the basic definition of what it is to be a woman (and also to be same-sex attracted).

You must let any male in whenever he demands but at the same time, any woman that doesn't keep herself pure will be shamed as a slut. All perfectly logical and no double standards at work

I think that this is one of the best replies to Bradshaw:

Flynnsmum1
Replying to
Ben Bradshaw

What excites you the most about female prisoners being housed with violent male sexual predators? What gets you going the most? Is it the fact they can’t run or the fact they’ll get their sentence increased for complaining?

CysticMeg

I wonder if he's read and reflected at all.

If so, he'll be weeping and wailing that someone has set all the Terfy transphobes onto him and how unfair it all is. The massive prat.

I really do think it's part of not seeing females as fully human.

Particularly female homosexuals who are neither the property of nor serving any useful purpose to biological males. The sex based thinking is always rigidly dimorphic at the root of all this.

If Ben Bradshaw is opposed to the "cotton ceiling" then presumably he is completely fine with giving oral sex to an unmodified trans man? After all, it would be gay sex wouldn't it?

I wish I could find the article with the rant about lesbians selfishly prioritising their own orgasms when there are male people in desperate need.

In sane terms, yes, you'd think so.

But I think you're supposed, according to this political view, to provide access strictly according to social policy. Your feelings, identity, reciprocation, yada yada, are of no interest to anyone. The 'learn to cope' comment came from the at that time Rachel McKinnon, well known cyclist, stated on radio 4. It actually went unchallenged too.

It is extremely funny in a very sick way. This is not the relationship strategies common to the healthy and functional, and the relationships board would encourage any woman to run a long, long way from a partner who viewed them in this way. It's also quite exceptionally homophobic as well as misogynistic.

As a social duty. I believe Riley Dennis was prepared to allow victims of trauma a short period of grace in this before they were expected to get over themselves and provide services to males in need.

Oh yes, I remember that. That women who have been raped and were suffering from PTSD would be allowed to spend a bit of time not having sex with men, even the lesbians. But then they need to get a grip and stop gatekeeping their genitalia.

Just a comment on TM and her shifting position. It would be nice to think that having started the process of consultation on the GRA, and then seeing the response she changed her mind.

Or she is just being good and going along the current Tory narrative.

This is the worry though, as we cant rely on Labour, and I wouldn't put it past the Tories is they thought it would win votes to fudge challenging Scotland's new bill.

Isn't gatekeeping one's vagina generally a good thing? Rather than just letting everyone in?

So I get it now. I'm been thinking why the hell do so many feminists keep referring to the bloody handmaids tale (a fictional weak sci-fi novel at best), as if it's even ever a possibility. But I get it now. Sorry.

Omg I see it.

I'm actually laughing! Cold, incredulous laughter! I can't fucking believe what I'm reading.

I think you've picked up all the key points, yes. Including that homosexual females can 'learn to cope' with straight sex if they try hard enough, (enjoyment of sex not being something for females, who are after all as we all know just walking therapeutic sex aids who one shouldn't have to pay or anything for services demanded - incel beliefs ahoy) and should strive to overcome their 'genital prejudices'. As a social duty. I believe Riley Dennis was prepared to allow victims of trauma a short period of grace in this before they were expected to get over themselves and provide services to males in need.

I mean anyone, of any sex and any gender, who wishes to treat another person like this is not relationship material and frankly you should run a bloody couple of hundred miles from. But yes, that's the rhetoric. I think my first encounter with all this was in the article from the individual indignant that lesbians 'resist the penis!'

🙄