80 year old woman banned from pool for standing up for little girls

It's 'valid' to prioritise males over females? How come?

You don’t have to understand it. It doesn’t mean it isn’t valid. It’s also erroneous to conflate the ‘safety and dignity’ of the majority and the opinion of the majority.

Men first - clear as day. Never understood why the feelings of one small group are prioritised over the safety and dignity of the majority.

I didn’t say my opinion should be above them, I simply stated what my opinion is.

I am supportive of marginalised minorities who are at risk of harmful discrimination. I weigh that risk against other risks and against other discriminated groups when there is conflict.

Ok, so you're fine with mixed facilities, but why should your opinion be above women and girls who are not OK and have concerns? We all have different opinions and boundaries, so the baseline that we all know of comfort, privacy and safety is surely common sense to protect those who are not ok?

I don't understand why women so readily support males and yet are so dismissive of their fellow females.

There are some data in this report. Section 4 looks to be the most relevant and that confirms that females are more likely to be victims of CSA: www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/childsexualabuseinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2019#what-do-we-know-about-the-prevalence-of-sexual-abuse-during-childhood

The example given was for a council run pool not a privately run one.

@Namerchangerextraordinaire I can, and do, care about both. A private company, within the limits of the law, can operate however it wants to.

Why don't you care about how the actual women & girls feel @Didimum?

Why do you only think the men & the people who want to take womens money while expecting them to be treated like second class citizens are the ones who get to decide?

Exactly this.

Helen Saxby has tweeted yesterday about a woman who has had a mastectomy and was using the local swimming pool womens only sessions because she doesn't feel comfortable in mixed sex sessions. A man in swimming trunks joined the group (directly contravenes the womens dress code on signage at the pools in Leicester council run facilities), when they asked staff they were told this man self identifies as a woman.

As a result the cancer survivor who has had a mastectomy and several of the Muslim women attending feel that they can no longer use the sessions.

So their protected characteristics of Sex, Disability and Religion are pushed aside for a male presenting self identified woman.

How is that acceptable?

It just turns a conversation about women and girls usually about men/males. That's the whole point really. I mean if people are too daft to realise that a discussion that doesn't involve them does not translate into wishing them dead/non-existent etc then should we really be pandering to that kind of paranoia /inability to help themselves anyway?

We have merely been conditioned into centreing men/males at every turn. Perhaps we should just stop.its not like any of them consider us at any point is it.

Yes, unless we're going to also start saying we think that women also need support if they have suffered.

All of which should go without saying.

The constant restating of this obvious, basic fact (like 'trans rights are human rights' - there's a truism if ever I heard one) seems to me to be protesting too much.

OF COURSE trans people should not be discriminated against.

Maybe we need to start saying 'I don't think anyone should be murdered' just as a matter of course, in general conversation.

What in hell is wrong with that crawling on the ground dude?

I think I mean that non-rhetorically. What is WRONG with him? I’ve never seen a human being act like that. I can’t even think what drugs might bring on that behaviour. Spice, if it hit him funny? But I’ve a horrible feeling he might not even be on drugs. He’s in a trance of violent misogyny.

I think it constantly plays into the same narrative tras seem to have which is ignoring the fact that there's a middle gound between accepting everything and anything that is demanded bi matter how unreasonable with a smile on our faces or wishing people dead in a grease fire.

I agree. I mean, it goes without saying, doesn't it, that right-thinking people abhor discrimination, respect the law and wish for appropriate support for anyone who is vulnerable/suffering.
We only seem to have to spell it out when talking about trans-identifying men (and, more rarely, trans-identifying women.)

I think tranwomen need to be accepted and not discriminated against. If they have suffered, they need mental health support

Don't ya ever get tired of this little disclaimer. We have to keep saying it every time. Truth is they for the most part these days are accepted. The law lso protects them.

The issues are never i saw a transaomN on the bus today " or " i share a desk with a transwomen " simple every day things that dont affect anyone. Those are ver ehats being discussed

The issues are simply when their demands become unreasonable. When our speech gets dictated. When our spaces get invaded by males

We really shouldn't have to keep saying this little disclaimer every time. Its so exhausting don't ya think. We can't say anything unless we offer sone recognition that we think an adult human male has somehow had a harder life than everyone else merely for existing as they do. Its such a lie.

That footage is horrible. Certainly put Port Townshend on the map - and its idiot Mayor.

If other types of dysphoria are treated as a mental illness why is gender dysphoria not treated in the same way.

What is the difference between someone who wants to amputate a leg because they truly believe they only have one leg and wants to live their life as a disabled person and someone who wants to amputate their penis or breasts and wants to live their life as someone of the opposite sex.

If trans women are women then why at the first sign of opposition do they turn to shouting down women with their louder male voices and resort to physical aggression.

In other words, if trans women think they are women why do they act so like men.

Horrifying to watch some of that footage. Young thug blokes ripping shoes off women, pushing and shoving elderly people, while the police do what?! Stand by?

twitter.com/reduxxmag/status/1559393658964697088?s=21&t=aURME9A279KotD6-VLskow

Just following this latest development.

Also, let me just clarify that my deleted comment was not directed to any specific individual on this thread, and I don't believe that anything I said was uncivil.
I don't think people need to police what other people say on the thread either.
Kellie Jay Keene was visited by the POLICE a couple of weeks ago for saying something similar though (and it seemed the police were amazingly defending the rights of someone who had taken umbridge around a very similar topic), so it seems that, in todays mental society, I am unable to say that those who think erections around children are absolutely fine, are perhaps not people I would want around children.

I am happy to give people the benefit of the doubt in an online discussion.

I think many people are desperate to be kind and feel very protective of what they perceive to be a persecuted minority who has suffered greatly. I genuinely feel for any transwoman who has gone through hell. if you think “big picture” it is easy to forget about that the devil always is in the details.

most of the time is seems that the “be kind” people never use communal changing rooms themselves and that the solution is single cubicles. Well, that means closing several swimming pools. Should everyone miss out on exercise because transwomen cannot accept to change in a separate area to women?

Do I have an issue with a transwoman being attracted to women, retaining their penis and getting elections? Of course not, that is very natural. But I am arguing that I do not want to see those erection and that I don’t want my daughters to see them.

and that is before we even come to the issue of men pretending to be trans specifically to get access to women . Was there not a study about Scottish prisoners (male) claiming to be trans for the duration of their prison time and then “detransitioning “.

this is why I am trying to hard to have a civil discussion about the details. They do matter.

I think tranwomen need to be accepted and not discriminated against. If they have suffered, they need mental health support.

but women and girls matter too. And they need support. I am against male bodies in single sex spaces and happy to calmly discuss why.

It is impossible to achieve a balanced view and to come to any solution unless all the details are discussed, calmly from both sides.

I don't really think it is possible to be civil to anyone who insists that women have no right to exclude adult males from areas where women are naked and vulnerable.

@Didimum would you mind answering the question about erections and proximity to little girls?

@Kennykenkencat I am not sure that it is confirmed what this person actually was doing. Let’s be clear about that.

however, what do people think about transwomen helping underaged, handicapped, non verbal girls with their intimate care and going to the toilet?

archive.ph/abs5z

this transwoman (see link above) is traumatised that they wasn’t allowed. @Didimum do you see any issue here?