80 year old woman banned from pool for standing up for little girls

So you are not going to clarify and explain why you think the process still works for strong safeguarding here?

That is fine. And I think it is important for readers to see where your argument is weak.

And they are weak if you will not be clear in how this process you have stated is the strongest safeguarding option to follow in this incident, actually protects the girls in that moment.

It shows a massive gap that you are either not willing or not able to discuss.

I think we are getting somewhere 😃. @Didimum .

it seems that you are ok with a penis person to watch little girls change as long as the little girls cannot see the exposed penis of the penis person?

i am really trying to understand here. Because, as the article above outlines, some people think that little girls (aged about 9) should politely look away if there is an exposed penis close to them.

we all have different views on this and it is good to hear what other people are thinking 😃.

and I think that penis people is an inclusive and non-offensive term, a little bit like menstruator. No gender assumed 😀.

How terrifying. So it’s ok in the YMCA’s eyes for a male employer to be sharing a change room with little girls. Obviously this employer must be able to use the facilities too, so it’s ok for Clementine to take off their clothes too. And of course it’s a female penis, so not an issue to have that out too. After all, the other women are changing into underwear too! How far do they plan to let this go?

It was an example of safeguarding protocol from an established authority. I'm not here to discuss your individual NSPCC grievances.

So – again – not naked then. I was merely pointing out that you made an error in your description. It is appropriate to be dressed in a bathing suit in a swimming pool. I understand the followup debate of 'male in a female changing space' – but if that's the pool's policy, then that's to take up with the pool.

The NSPCC literally says to first report concerns to authority members.

NSPCC 'complaining about staff members uploading rubber fetish porn from the NSPCC work toilets is homophobia and anyone suggesting it is inappropriate and a disregard for appropriate boundaries should have their twitter account closed down' - that NSPCC?

I've said what I've said. You are free to disagree.

Nope. I've never said said. Please quote me if I have. Once again, I commented on this thread to discuss the actions taken by the elderly woman, not the spectrum of trans identities and organisation's policies.

I didn't say it was a school. It was an example of concerns in safeguarding procedure by an established and respected organisation.

If the pool does not take reports of safeguarding seriously, then that's a failing of the pool to be reported, again, to the correct authority.

I couldn't give a flying fuck if he was in there in thermal long johns, woolly jumper, tweed overcoat and gloves.

His state of dress (or lack thereof) is not the only issue.
His PRESENCE is the issue.

His SEX is the issue.

His PENIS is the issue.

You've made it very clear that all a man has to do is say three words and you accept him fully as a woman.

If this isn't the case do explain what has to happen before you accept him fully as a woman, just so that we know where you are coming from.

FFS.

And leave a group of girls to be watched by a male?

Do you understand where the process doesn’t work here?

Do you honestly think that the most safe action for those girls is to leave the male in a position to continue to watch them?

And actually it doesn't make much difference that they were in a bathing suit.

Its hardly fully dressed

Absolutely you have

This wasn't in a school (and if it was I'd rather take a bollicking from SLT and intervene) and again, it's clear from what happened next staff would not have done anything to protect those kids.

Sometimes you have to think what's worse ... allowing predatory behaviour to happen because we need to follow procedures or offending an individual?

I'm not the policy maker. I am not in this thread to comment on policy making, not insert myself into that role. My post are only about the appropriate action of the elderly woman in the article. I've made that very clear.

So not naked then. Cool.

The NSPCC literally says to first report concerns to authority members. IG Schools explicitly says to not 'solve the situation yourself or confront anyone'.

Ahhh my bad nope, Clementine was indeed dressed at the time with their penis probably not at all obvious while standing watching these little girls changing. So it was just a man watching small children who were likely to be briefly naked.

When I write it down like that I do wonder why I was so cross. Totes normal non predatory behaviour

The most important job of any society is to protect its children. Everyone knows this. Sometimes this is at the expense of the feelings and convenience of good, law abiding people. Decent people understand this.

Any society that forgets their most important job is, sooner or later, fucked.

This wasn’t a woman.

""Hawkins added that her solution to females who felt uncomfortable changing around males were to use bathroom stalls, which are located in the same gender-neutral area. She also suggested closing the shower curtain was an appropriate solution for privacy and safety.""

Why do women have to close themselves off with a shower curtain? Why can't TW be told to do that? Is it possibly because it's patronising?

I think, if I were women using that centre, I'd ask my DS/DH/DBIL/DF to come in with me - after all how can he be stopped? He only has to say he's TW and away he goes with a smile on his face.

As for women having to look away if a TW is changing and has a penis. No way will I look away. You want me to be uncomfortable in my space? I'll make sure you feel uncomfortable too. Cover up or go.

When a male enters a space for women and girls they give up the right to be spoken to in a non offensive or truthful way. Victims of voyeurism and sexual harassment ( which is exactly what a male entering women's spaces is) do not owe the perpetrator " nice"

Seriously wtf

Was the TW naked?

BigDayToday
What about a man? Not a TW like the one in this story but just a man who wants to be there? Is that ok? And if not, how can we tell the difference?

That’s for the establishment’s policy makers to decide.

////

If you were the policy maker what would you do?