Learning-disabled girls & women must accept men providing intimate care

I am so angry about these fuckers posting on here with their ridiculous “whataboutery”.

if you have no insight into the needs of our most vulnerable women, if you prioritise the wants of other people over their basic rights, or you use financial limitations as justification to ignore their basic rights, or the challenges of managing a service to deny their basic rights, or you do not think these women matter as much as anyone else, well, then you are stupid. Do these posters not realise how close they are to being like one of these vulnerable women?

I hope they don’t ever have “oh shit” on loop in their head when one day their circumstances change ans it is THEM who is needing help to navigate life, when it is THEIR voice beinf dismissed, when it is THEIR inconvenient basic rights which are pushed aside.

we all might get old, sick or poor. We all might have the unforunate experience of life changing overnight.

Theyll have “oh shit oh shit oh shit oh shit” on loop in their head and maybe a vague realisation that when mumsnet thought they were a massive bell end this is why.

fuck them. Selfish, smug fuckers. They’ll learn.

It’s not at all complicated. You ask each person at each interaction and at each point in an intervention for their consent.

it’s basic care. Basic dignity and respect and ensuring they feel safe.

I hope you aren’t a healrhcare professional, @antifascist

no, @Adelishious - go and read my post again.

I’m rather good with words and don’t require support to choose ones which suit your peculiar interpretation of <blinks> what rape is.

Fucking hell. You think the only thing women are allowed to consent to is <reads your astonishing post again> rape?

I didn’t say it was the lib fems fault.

I said they need to listen to the women who don’t have their privileges to enjoy.

it is easy to give away rights you have never had to rely on because you have support, education, health, resources and skills which have kept you out of eg jail, hospital or danger.

how anyone could see the stories of women who have needed their basic rights to privacy, dignity and safety and then laugh, or scoff, or ridicule —like you are— - well, it makes me wince.

we agree that this is not a trans issue. It is a womens rights issue, and women of all political persuasions are giving away the rights of women who need those rights, just because they have never considered the value of those women or that legislation.

I will never forgive them.

I know, @antelopevalley . They shouldn’t and they are often compromised, even those who have people who are able and willing to advocate for them.

i care. I really do.

Consent does not apply just because you don't want to be cared for by a member of the opposite sex

it absolutely does apply. Regardless of the sex of the HCP or carer.

you should be asked for consent for any medical or intimate procedure. You can also withdraw consent at any time. So if you are asked by female nurse practitioner if you are ok for her to do a smear, and say yes, but then she says oh actually do you mind if my student/this male NP/ GP does it, you can absolutely refuse.

as for how I feel about male nurses or other HCP, personally I don’t give a fuck. I had a male midwife and a male HV, who were both brilliant. However, I am not vulnerable, i have enough medical knowledge to know what procedures should involve, and am fairly confident I could recognise anything inappropriate, and be able to report it. Many women can’t, especially vulnerable ones.

I know it shouldn’t surprise me. But somehow the sight of the trans lobby here passionately upholding men’s right to touch disabled women intimately, regardless of the women’s consent, is …. strange. And revealing.

What people? People who don't have vulnerable needs or additional? That's a bit rude.

I'm not vulnerable but I often request a female for a smear and as for a male nurse.. well he's not giving me any type of intimate care (I would decline).

How do you feel?

Yes, there have been previous threads on similar topics, feel free to contribute to them. It's not really the point of this thread, is it?

I've always been offered a chaperone or asked if I would prefer a woman.

How do people feel about male nurses, or women doctors dealing with people of the opposite sex?

@stealtheatingtunnocks
I think the phrase youre looking for is that 'you dont want that to happen'
Consent implies by its very nature that there is an agreement between two people prior to an event. I know why you used the word consent, as it was likely done so in order to hijack the experience of victims of rape and imply that the situation you are referring to is in some way akin to being raped. IT ISN'T! Consent does not apply just because you don't want to be cared for by a member of the opposite sex.

Not in my send school's policy.

I believe Safeguarding principles means that Two people have to be present for any procedure

Boxowine · Today 17:01
How is this the "lib fems" fault?

That woman was raped by a male care giver, not a trans woman. There is no trans connection. Women in the US, even vulnerable ones, do not have the right to same sex care in medical settings.

This is because women in the US do not have sex based rights. At all. So, many of the worst case scenarios that that will come to pass in UK if self ID is allowed already exist here in the US because the right wing elements here continue to oppress women.

Remember that when you conservative "feminists" join forces with these people.

Right wing US is oppressing women over removing their access to abortion.
But isn’t it the Left Wing (US style) promoting self ID, trans women athletes competing with women, trans women criminals in women’s prisons, children being rushed through dangerous ‘so called ‘Paediatric Gender Care’?

Here the only hope against self-ID are some of the Conservatives.

So I am genuinely confused by your post.

Again, it's eff all to do with individuals. Individual trans people.

It's the guidance that was deliberately changed from single sex intimate care policy to and any sex intimate care policy

"same-sex intimate care had now become cross-gender intimate care,"

Under the banner of equality , diversity and_ inclusion._

Which is therefore deliberately Ignoring the EA characteristic of sex.

When males commit nearly 100% of sexual assaults, and a huge number of disabled women have been assaulted (I've seen est of 100%) sex matters.

And when transwomen's rate of sexual offending does not fall from that of men when they transition (not necessarily having surgery) again, sex matters.

How is this the "lib fems" fault?

That woman was raped by a male care giver, not a trans woman. There is no trans connection. Women in the US, even vulnerable ones, do not have the right to same sex care in medical settings.

This is because women in the US do not have sex based rights. At all. So, many of the worst case scenarios that that will come to pass in UK if self ID is allowed already exist here in the US because the right wing elements here continue to oppress women.

Remember that when you conservative "feminists" join forces with these people.

This is absolutely essential. Women do not commit an equal number of crimes, especially sex crimes. We are unequal in all minds of ways — pay, opportunities, strength and many more.

The safety of vulnerable people outweighs anyone’s wish for a particular job.

Did the police catch the rapist? I seem to remember all staff were to be DNA tested.
Anyway, this ghastly story is further evidence that men should not have access to vulnerable females. Single sex spaces are essential for safety and dignity.

Pickanameforme · Today 22:26
Scrolling that Sky News report is awful
It isn’t it.
This whole issue is extremely unrepresented I think. It is so very awful.
Awful about the police too.

I read DrEMs report, I feel sick.

Scrolling that Sky News report is awful.