Amy Hamm - Canadian Nurse being disciplined for being GC

Must nearly be Canada lunch time.

KS: People who are v immersed in fiction of their sex change. It's like being in a theatre - you don't want reality to break through. So they shut conversations down and control other people's language so they don't have to face it. People do that in all areas of life. Trans people shut people down by calling them bigots - that's v effective [little laugh]

Thanks all for your posts. I'm too angry to post coherently, but I'm following.

KS stating the obvious, that you can't change sex. We are a sexually dimorphic species. Every natural language since the dawn of time we have had words for man/woman boy/girl. If TW were women they wouldn't be trans. It's a fiction in which we are being asked to immerse ourselves.

There's fiction in human life - plays, stories. Sometimes it may be therapeutically useful to go along with that fiction, or it's courtesy. Trans people can be immersed in their fiction but can't compel others to go along with it. And sometimes it's dangerous - eg going along with the fiction when faced with a rapist in a women's prison.

Children aren't going to know it's fiction - they are learning about the world from us and they need to know what biological sex is and that a man may pose specific dangers. And if children get confused about their identities there is a medical pathway they are being funnelled towards before they understand the facts.

LB: What harm is there in pointing out correct sex of a trans person?

KS: [doesn't think there is really] If you point out the sex of a trans person everyone already knows. We are hardwired as a species to know the sex of someone.

LB: Any changes needed?

KS: No. Need to get rid of old stereotype of transsexual who's taken hormones and surgery to alter body. We are compelled to agree someone is trans just cos of their feelings being at odds with their physical body, although nothing about their body has changed.

LB: Is there harm to trans people by using sex based language.

KS: No. The contrary. Eg hospitals you need clarity, for correct treatment for your sex. And children shouldn't be confused. All of us in life go through feelings of distress but that's part of being human.

LB: What is harm.

KS: Damage. But concept creep means harm can be ascribed to trivial things like offence.

KS: critique isn't against trans people, it's against ideas. Often tras aren't trans themselves and many trans people themselves don't agree.

I'm really enjoying listening to Kathleen Stock, I love that little baffled 'god this is obvious isn't it' laugh she does at the beginning of some sentences.

KS: Biological sex hasn't gone away. Women in particular - all of us actually - have lost the ability to refer to ourselves accurately. For eg that males are generally bigger and stronger eg re sport. Lost ability to talk c sex in relation to maternity, sexual orientation. If you take sex away you can't talk about sexual violence, fairness in sports, harm to vulnerable females in prison, hospital wards.

And children - they are very confused c this and there are experiments in drugs and surgery on children and disproportionally done on females.

*lovely

KS has a lively speaking voice

Pause while everyone tries the turn it off and on again solution to hearing KS

KS: in certain contexts it's claimed that the former understanding of biological sex is old fashioned and it should be thought of as a spectrum. Or it's claimed that sex is socially constructed by humans rather than as found in nature. Those are quite radical views from a philosophical ?section in academia. I think they are completely wrong.

LB: what is sex by your definition

KS: the one that is standard by biology, distinguishing two types in a species pertaining to their role in reproduction.

[KS's feed is rubbish now, and she sounds like a dalek]

Panel - KS can't analyse AH's statement, just talk about language generally

The irony and utterly disgustingly depressing fact that a man would be tried for and found innocent of rape with more evidence against them and less questioning or length of trial than this ludicrous farce is really making me dislike the world at the moment.

Polite little place mark. I’m bookmarking and watching, but a comment works better.

Michael Seaborn is objecting. Says that panel has decided what KS can and cannot testify about. We are straying past the boundaries of KS's report. Can't ask about the statements of AH.

LB's answer. In law, an expert isn't limited to precise contents of their report. I'm following the panel's decisions re what KS is allowed to comment on. Trying to define the concepts being discussed, starting with what is GI and the language used around it. Panel said KS could speak to the risks of defining transphobia too broadly. MS is wrong in his objection.

Panel go off to have coffee, smell the roses, and discuss the objection.

Lawyer for the Nursing Council.

Does MS he/him objecting at this point mean that it's going to be him cross examining KS? I really wanted it to be bf!

Who is the slow talking man?

KS: Dr Bauer's is an activist understanding of GI. Once you have a feeling it's not a feeling that might be wrong, it's that you know, and only you can know according to this activist view ...I think it's a misunderstanding of what the word 'knowing' means. It's not observation or evidence. There's no methodology here - it's just 'I know'. You may feel it strongly but that's different from knowing it.

I appreciate all the commentary on the hearing from you all. It makes the world seem fuller and brighter somehow to know that others are observing and participating.

I think KS nearly laughed when LB asked about "feelings" and "knowings" about gender identity.