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Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 18

995 replies

ickky · 22/06/2022 20:26

The Tribunal started on 25th April, witness testimony concluded on the 26th May. Closing arguments for council was on the 20th June.

There was also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC )
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case

Panel = Judge Goodman, Mr M. Reuby and Ms Darmas

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Thread 16 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4557036-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-16

Thread 17 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4561850-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-17

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)
Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

Allison Bailey's

Witness Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Witness-Statement-of-Allison-Bailey.pdf

Supplementary Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/C-Supplementary-Witness-Statement.pdf

Closing Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/CLOSING-SUBMISSIONS-FINAL.pdf

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
SidewaysOtter · 27/07/2022 13:15

That evidence should be free of the phrases, Christmas shopping, Friday afternoon, 1 a.m., driving, children etc.

You missed my favourite which was “reversing into a bin”.

And that Stonewall statement, to me, seems to translate as “Someone in SW went rogue but anyway, if you listen to our advice on your own head be it.”

Aside from any of that, bloody well done Allison!

Mumsnut · 27/07/2022 13:15

Must plough through the judgement and see if The Bundle was mentioned ...

highame · 27/07/2022 13:14

You don't need a legal win to win. This is really excellent, even if some claims fell by the wayside. I am waiting to hear what Allison Bailey has to say and in the meantime, congratulations Allison

FannyCann · 27/07/2022 13:14

Loving Allison's press release.

JK Rowling's friend Allison Bailey wins...! StarWineGlitterball

https://allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2022-07-22-Press-Release-Publication-copy.docx.pdf

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 18
Cherryblossoms85 · 27/07/2022 13:13

@GrabbyGabby A large public US company. They really don't see it the same way. All these initiatives are driven from the US. Intranet is full of commentary on every leftwing issue, with the rather glaring immission of Roe v. Wade, which is apparently too divisive and they will be making no comment. If I say anything I'll just lose my bonus, it won't change anything.

JoodyBlue · 27/07/2022 13:12

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

corlan · 27/07/2022 13:09

I am seriously tempted to send a big bunch of flowers round to GCC with a massive label saying “Congratulations on your ET victory Allison!!!”

Genius idea!

Apollo442 · 27/07/2022 13:09

KittenKong · 27/07/2022 12:57

I don’t get that… they gave advice which the employer took and they aren’t to blame?

Show quote history

They aren't legally on the hook for Alison as the client has been given the blame for acting on their illegal advice. However, the client has a case against Stonewall but the fact they are a barristers chamber and should have known better will probably count against them. Not a great advert for Stonewall though.

Pyjamagame · 27/07/2022 13:07

Gabcsika · 27/07/2022 13:02

Ah yes, my error.

Ignore.

Show quote history

I made the same mistake on the first read of that paragraph. It is tricky if you're not used to reading legalese.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 27/07/2022 13:07

Gabcsika · 27/07/2022 12:54

Preliminary judgement accidentallly misgenders Shaan Knan

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Bailey-judgment.pdf

Ooops.

Show quote history

SK is a transman.

The claimant is AB.

IDidntKnowItWasAParty · 27/07/2022 13:04

Utterly fabulous result.
Stonewall have shown their true colours, even if they couldn't be pinned down in law - in fact that proves even more why organisations should not be associated with Stonewall: because if you do what Stonewall tell you, if you follow their illegal advice, you will get sued, and then Stonewall will protect itself and leave you to carry the can.
Thank you Allison (and team) for shining a light on the disgraceful misogynistic, homophobic, child abusing, fascistic organisation that Stonewall now is, and on the appalling behaviour of GCC which was shocking in so many ways (all bad). We are all so grateful for your courage and strength.

CraggyIslandTouristBoard · 27/07/2022 13:03

totalnamechanger · 27/07/2022 12:41

craggy don’t you know that no one at Garden Court knows how to use Twitter? (Except when they do).

But they have a page on the world wide interweb, with Chambers news and everything! I keep refreshing it, but nothing 🤷‍♀️

I am seriously tempted to send a big bunch of flowers round to GCC with a massive label saying “Congratulations on your ET victory Allison!!!”

Or maybe I should accidentally misaddress the envelope to the Head of Chambers, with the card for Allison inside…

CriticalCondition · 27/07/2022 13:03

Loving your username RandomlyThrownTogether !😂

Chrysanthemum5 · 27/07/2022 13:02

Brilliant! Well done Allison and team I'm a feeling very emotional (where's my support dog 🐶)

Gabcsika · 27/07/2022 13:02

Pyjamagame · 27/07/2022 12:59

I thought that 'claimant' was Allison Bailey?

Show quote history

Ah yes, my error.

Ignore.

Pyjamagame · 27/07/2022 12:59

Gabcsika · 27/07/2022 12:54

Preliminary judgement accidentallly misgenders Shaan Knan

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Bailey-judgment.pdf

Ooops.

Show quote history

I thought that 'claimant' was Allison Bailey?

TinselAngel · 27/07/2022 12:58

Presumably this means Stonewall can say what they want but if you're an employer who acts on their advice and it causes you to discriminate then you will be liable?

This amuses me as I have a mental image of Stonewall continuing to spout its nonsense to the air, as everyone is frightened of the consequences of listening to them.

It reminds me of when Polgara the Sorceress pronounces on somebody, what she says is one of the worst curses of all: that nobody will ever believe a word they say again. (Niche David Eddings reference).

Clymene · 27/07/2022 12:57

YESSSSSSSS

KittenKong · 27/07/2022 12:57

Apollo442 · 27/07/2022 12:25

So GCC have been found guilty for acting on Stonewall's illegal advice but not Stonewall for giving said advice. Ok... I think Stonewall are fairly covered in shit over this and good luck to them spinning this as any sort of positive. 'Listen to our illegal advice and get sued'.

I don’t get that… they gave advice which the employer took and they aren’t to blame?

BringMeTea · 27/07/2022 12:56

Hip Hip! Brava Allison!! 🎉🎉

Wouldloveanother · 27/07/2022 12:56

Stonewall: ‘If everything we did to encourage workplaces to mistreat GC people actually led to mistreatment, then that’s nothing to do with us’

😂

TheKeatingFive · 27/07/2022 12:56

i really hope organisations look at that and I understand that when the shit hits the fan, they are totally on their own

They'd be dumb as rocks not to.

This is an enormous blow to Stonewall's corporate influence. Thank fuck.

RandomlyThrownTogether · 27/07/2022 12:55

Sophoclesthefox · 27/07/2022 12:47

Leaders within organisations are responsible for the organisational culture and the behaviour of their employees and workers. Stonewall’s resources, support and guidance is just one set of inputs they use to help them as they consider how best to meet the needs of their own organisation

Surprisingly, I agree with Stonewall here.

They do indeed offer one set of inputs, elaborating one way of seeing the world, and in support of one set of people.

Many more inputs are also available and companies should consider how much weight they give Stonewall’s input versus, say, input from the EHRC, womens groups, or common bloody sense such as that everyone knows that two year olds don’t express sincerely held gender identities.

Serious organisations will be taking note, and adjusting accordingly. Stonewall may not like how that turns out.

Yes, it's a salutary reminder to organisations that they follow the legal advice of partisan lobbyists entirely at their own risk. The value and accuracy of that advice may vary, especially if an organisation is pushing one particular ideology rather than offering balanced and objective information.

Gabcsika · 27/07/2022 12:54

ickky · 27/07/2022 12:32

www.judiciary.uk/judgments/bailey-v-stonewall-garden-court-chambers-and-others/

Preliminary judgement accidentallly misgenders Shaan Knan

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Bailey-judgment.pdf

Ooops.

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 18
VestofAbsurdity · 27/07/2022 12:53

Allison may not have won against Stonewall in this case, however, the bright and blinding light shone on Stonewall's practices and those of the people they employ or empower to carry out those practices by this Court case and the subsequent increased awareness by the public of what Stonewall is now is a win.

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