Prisons Judicial Review: Judgement

That Daily Mail article. Pic of White.

Yup. That'll do it.

Now this is finished perhaps women will look to support those viulnerable prisoners who coerced into sex for safety or just plain sexually assaulted by male staff or other prisoners.

Finished?? Do you know any women? At all? This has lit a touch paper, the like of which I've never seen.

Most people don't even know about this dreadful, misogynistic, inhuman and discriminatory law. Until the judge spelt it out in words of one syllable yesterday.

This is blinding sunlight.

The judge practically recommended suing the MOJ.

What with that and the increasing enthusiasm to repeal the GRA, this is just the beginning.

Something worth noting about risk assessment is that there are standard risk assessment measures - like the HCR-20 - which are used to evaluate risk of violence and reoffending in men.

Those tools aren't validated for use with women, who have very different offending patterns. That often means that they are not used for trans women either. So I have very little confidence in the risk assessment process tbh.

(This isn't my area of expertise btw - but I heard a talk about risk assessment in prison last year and this came up)

I'm not conflating the two. A pp had said 'This evades the valid point made about female sex offenders' and I was pointing out that the level of women in prison for committing sexual offences is likely to be low to non existent in most prisons, unlike in men's prisons.

Addressing female sex offending - by actual females- is a separate issue. Make a thread about it and we can talk. Don't conflate the two.

@Cygne it would be interesting to know how many women who are violent sex offenders are in prison. The things I've read have seemed to indicate that the vast majority of women are imprisoned for non violent offences such as non payment of bills (the TV licence is often mentioned). If the discussion is 'women are sexual offenders too', I wonder how many are in prison? Or whether the presumption is that they become so in prison.

Whereas, men who have committed violent offences (including rape and sexual assult) seem to make up quite a large percentage of the male prison estate and this pattern of offences seems to be consistent with the offences committed by transwomen. It would be interesting to know the offences committed by transmen to see if the pattern continues.

I'm not sure what research has been done around this subject - I might have to have a better read of the KPSS website.

By "amend", I mean start the process in Parliament.

If the law is fucked then a senior politician needs the gumption to amend the Single Sex exemption bit of GRA to clarify it. Or redo the whole thing. This shower of bastards in government seem like the only lot willing to do it. Or there needs to be more sensible coverage in the media to start that debate that Stonewall was trying to silence. Maybe we wouldn't have to rely on Tory shits to get changes made.

I find the same with online conversations sometimes too, particularly when it's something like satire or the person is being sarcastic - it's not always clear. I'm going off my previous knowledge of NiceGerbil's feelings on the matter.

[quote Waitwhat23]@Sprogonthetyne I think NiceGerbil was saying that the whole 'what about the men?' is an argument she's heard from certain groups, rather than being her opinion.[/quote]
Apologies, I'm hopeless at tone in real life conversion, and worse still in writing.

Apologies, I'm tone-deaf in real life conversion and worse still in writing.

Because this isn't the 'let's make the world lovely for everyone' section, people in these parts tend to be focused on women. Do you also argue that as things are much worse for donkeys then for dogs, the dog's trust should be focusing on them?

This evades the valid point made about female sex offenders.

@Sprogonthetyne I think NiceGerbil was saying that the whole 'what about the men?' is an argument she's heard from certain groups, rather than being her opinion.

Fortunately there is nothing to stop you from campaigning for safer men's prisons, I'm sure everyone here would wish you luck in your endeavour, it's just not what we're doing right now.

This ⬆️.

Fuck this misogynist earth.

Non transgender women
Non men
Non important

:(

Weeping with rage and despair that it has been so openly stated that this policy is dangerous for women, but legal. Just thinking that for many male prisoners, because of the increased no of crimes that men do, the tariffs for those that actually end up in prison must be higher..ie more serious crimes , longer sentences etc. As opposed to women who are in prison for shorter periods ,whose crimes are nearly all minor in comparison. So most male prisoners are likely to be higher risk to begin with , let alone the extra higher figure for TW. Given that there are huge numbers of dangerous sex offenders and paedophiles at large in the community, those in prison must be the most dangerous. None of this means it is acceptable to place any man with or without a GRC in the female estate, ever. And the ones with a GRC are still men and should be recorded as such.
Solidarity to the woman who brought the case. I am sure there will be many of us who will contribute to any case that will lead to a change in policy and justice for women.

I think they go pretty much automatically don't they. Risk assessment then happens.

Being transferred to the female estate and then back to the male again isn't uncommon.

The thing is that the risk assessment is ? around certain types of thing. And may well not include some of the things that have led to transfer to male prison.

Ddraig

Whether that poster realises that their argument is exactly the same as ones popular with MRAs, I don't know.

'And then to be told that yes, we have to accept that males who committed sexual or violent crimes against women can lawfully be included even though it was accepted that this puts women at risk of male violence and even though the mere inclusion of male prisoners harms women, regardless of an actual assault happening. It's incomprehensible.'

Just thinking.

Maybe it makes sense if you remember.

Women and girls are supposed to somehow 'protect themselves' from predatory men.

If we get attacked it's our own fault. These women are in prison. Whatever happens they've brought it on themselves. Committing crime is like wearing a short skirt, walking alone after dark, drinking etc etc. What did you expect?

Women and girls lie about sex offences all the time. These women are in prison. Not honest then. Maybe they don't like the trans prisoner. Could well be a false accusation due to transphobia. Attention seeking. Mentally ill.

Women and girls are prey. That's just a fact. Sex offenders who want to attack them can and will. That's life. Accept it.

On the outside rape is so unlikely to have any consequences for the rapist it's practically decriminalised. The police have said that things like flashing are of no interest to them. Why would it be different in prison?

So I suppose the male centred view is women get all this stuff anyway whether in or out of prison. So what's the problem. And some male people can feel safer.

So from that perspective it makes sense.

I hope that is a totally paranoid way to look at it.

But there's something really bizarre going on with this.

It's misogyny. In the end.