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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Prisons Judicial Review: Judgement

468 replies

KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 02/07/2021 09:02

It's finally here...
The judgement in the prisons judicial review R (FDJ) v SSJ
will be handed down by email at 10.30 am today...

Here is a reminder of what it was about:

www.keep-prisons-single-sex.org.uk/judicial-review-campaign-update

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 03/07/2021 16:07

Good luck tonight, KPSS, you're doing such important work.

InvisibleDragon · 03/07/2021 15:31

Good luck with the interview tonight kpss!

MrsOvertonsWindow · 03/07/2021 15:29

What this judgement means in terms of safeguarding children doesn't bear thinking about. If it can be so openly stated by the judiciary that the protection of women from sex offenders can be abandoned in favour of the demands of these criminals wanting access to their victims for validation purposes, then who is going to hold the line for children's safety.
We've already seen how the political activist groups pushing queer theory have been able to access schools with (until recently) no restrictions....

KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 03/07/2021 15:09

@ValancyRedfern

Good luck kpss What should I Google to contribute to your fundraising?
Thank you!

I think googling this:

fighting-for-sex-based-rights-of-women-in-prison

will get you there!

OP posts:
KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 03/07/2021 15:09

@Welloff

well done Keep.

Looking forward to finding out who you are!

Make sure you haven't got any mumsnet posts about the rest of your personal life before you out yourself :)

Not a chance of that!!
OP posts:
Ninkanink · 03/07/2021 15:05

@teawamutu

I'm not depressed like I normally am the day after a setback.

Partly because we literally couldn't buy the publicity this loss has given us. And partly because I'm more in a 'fuck this shit we riot at dawn' space.

Judicial reviews don't work for us because so much of this crap is legal. So let's fucking sue.

Can we crowdfund for the victim? Can we set up the GC Law Project and have a fighting fund for cases?

And if it's legal, the law must change. Writing to my MP today.

This. 100%.
ValancyRedfern · 03/07/2021 15:02

Good luck kpss
What should I Google to contribute to your fundraising?

Welloff · 03/07/2021 15:00

well done Keep.

Looking forward to finding out who you are!

Make sure you haven't got any mumsnet posts about the rest of your personal life before you out yourself :)

KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 03/07/2021 14:58

I have been invited onto the Neil Oliver Show on GB News at 8.00 pm tonight to discuss yesterday's judgement and what needs to be done for women in prison.

OP posts:
Datun · 03/07/2021 14:43

So - the adult males who are less likely to commit sex attacks on women and girls are lawfully excluded from intimate female spaces, but adult males who are the most likely to commit sex attacks on women and girls are lawfully included.

Yesssssss. Ffs

Manderleyagain · 03/07/2021 14:35

For people writing to their mp's about this.

The gra 2004 was under a labour government. To be fair they had to respond to the European Court ruling, but the act is badly worded.

The EA 2010 was passed right at the end of a Labour government. Although it mainly brought in existing law, some of the bad situation we find ourself in now could have been avoided at that point, by properly dealing with how it interacted with the gra, and how parts of the act interact with each other.

The EA statutory code of practice was passed in 2011 by the Conservative led coalition government. The wording compounded some of the problems, making it more difficult to use the exemptions which allow tw to be excluded from female services if proportionate, as the act allows.

The policies which we object to on this board have often been introduced since 2010, ie under a Conservative led government. The moj prison policy is lawful, but a policy which is better for women could also be legal. It is a choice made by a Conservative government.

So, depending on the party of your mp, you might want to point out how their party has contributed to allowing intact male born sex offenders being placed in prison with women.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 03/07/2021 14:30

@Clymene

Has anyone posted the James Kirkup article yet?

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-court-judgement-that-confirms-women-pay-for-trans-rights

I think this, more than any of the other judgements, demonstrates that the GRA is an absolute nonsense and that there is no way that you can ever protect women if the law says that men can change sex.

Yes, it's posted upthread and there's an archive version for those who don't have access.
ScreamingMeMe · 03/07/2021 14:28

She also mentioned a case where a prisoner tried to change his name to 'God Almighty' so that the officers would have to address his as such

That was Andrew Burns, a very dangerous prisoner who now identifies as a woman.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/1492364/transgender-prisoner-tiffany-scott-andrew-burns-dangerous-sheriff/amp/

Clymene · 03/07/2021 14:24

Has anyone posted the James Kirkup article yet?

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-court-judgement-that-confirms-women-pay-for-trans-rights

I think this, more than any of the other judgements, demonstrates that the GRA is an absolute nonsense and that there is no way that you can ever protect women if the law says that men can change sex.

ScreamingMeMe · 03/07/2021 14:20

@toffeebutterpopcorn

There will be law cases. Too late of course. I also remember cases in the states where prisoners contracted AIDS in jail after being raped because those with it weren’t treated and those who were assaulted weren’t listened to or protected.
That's horrific Sad
teawamutu · 03/07/2021 13:17

I'm not depressed like I normally am the day after a setback.

Partly because we literally couldn't buy the publicity this loss has given us. And partly because I'm more in a 'fuck this shit we riot at dawn' space.

Judicial reviews don't work for us because so much of this crap is legal. So let's fucking sue.

Can we crowdfund for the victim? Can we set up the GC Law Project and have a fighting fund for cases?

And if it's legal, the law must change. Writing to my MP today.

ChristinaXYZ · 03/07/2021 13:06

there is a good thread on twitter explaining how this judgement proves rights are pie:

twitter.com/RichardJGarside/status/1410917867990704129

OffYouGoNow · 03/07/2021 13:05

Male prisons and mix sexed prisons.

They're higher than men.

The judge also acknowledged this in his judgment.

Why are transwomen more likely to be sex offenders than men?

I wonder of there's a clue in the "ignoring women's boundaries of single-sex spaces" issue.

So - the adult males who are less likely to commit sex attacks on women and girls are lawfully excluded from intimate female spaces, but adult males who are the most likely to commit sex attacks on women and girls are lawfully included.

We have been banging on about this fact on this board for years.

The police, judiciary, hone office, nhs, charities, ‘feminist’ organisations - ALL complicit fuckers.

merrymouse · 03/07/2021 12:58

But it's batshit that we ended up in this situation in the first place.

Yes, but women have been putting up with batshittery for centuries!

PearPickingPorky · 03/07/2021 12:34

@BatmansBat

Actually, we know that sex crimes are significantly higher for transwomen compared to biological women.

How do they compare to sex crime rates for men?

They're higher than men.

The judge also acknowledged this in his judgment.

Why are transwomen more likely to be sex offenders than men?

I wonder of there's a clue in the "ignoring women's boundaries of single-sex spaces" issue.

SirVixofVixHall · 03/07/2021 12:33

@BatmansBat

Actually, we know that sex crimes are significantly higher for transwomen compared to biological women.

How do they compare to sex crime rates for men?

Almost fifty per cent of transgender males in prison are there for sex crimes. Around 18% of non trans identifying males are in prison for sex crimes.
GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 03/07/2021 12:25

@merrymouse
But this is actually a step forward because it acknowledges that competing rights exist. This is not ‘TWAW’.
This is true.
But it's batshit that we ended up in this situation in the first place. Women said that putting natal males into the female estate as a bad idea, and lo and bloody behold...

BatmansBat · 03/07/2021 12:19

Actually, we know that sex crimes are significantly higher for transwomen compared to biological women.

How do they compare to sex crime rates for men?

PronounssheRa · 03/07/2021 12:15

@Etorih

Why are the rates of sex crimes disproportionate for transwomen inmates

Yes I'd like to know the answer to this.

I think we all want to know the reason for this
Etorih · 03/07/2021 12:14

Although I can guess the answer tbh.