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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Prisons Judicial Review: Judgement

468 replies

KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 02/07/2021 09:02

It's finally here...
The judgement in the prisons judicial review R (FDJ) v SSJ
will be handed down by email at 10.30 am today...

Here is a reminder of what it was about:

www.keep-prisons-single-sex.org.uk/judicial-review-campaign-update

OP posts:
TedImgoingmad · 02/07/2021 11:43

The harms perpetuated will grow bigger and bigger, some women will probably die. Then eventually one day it will be finally to big to ignore and then the handwringing will begin along with all the op-eds about 'how could this happen?' and 'lessons learned'.

You forgot to add, @OvaHere , the inevitable, "Why didn't the feminists do anything about it?"

BSJohnson · 02/07/2021 11:43

Or by transwomen with a GRC?

ZuttZeVootEeeVro · 02/07/2021 11:41

@EmbarrassingAdmissions

there were 97 sexual assaults in women's prisons…the 90 assaults by other women were equally unacceptable.

Were the assaults by fellow prisoners or were some of them by guards?

Or 'women' with a grc?
purpleboy · 02/07/2021 11:40

Those 7 assaults were unacceptable, but the 90 assaults by other women were equally unacceptable.

These 7 assaults were avoidable.

This is a fucking disgraceful judgment.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 02/07/2021 11:39

there were 97 sexual assaults in women's prisons…the 90 assaults by other women were equally unacceptable.

Were the assaults by fellow prisoners or were some of them by guards?

Cygne · 02/07/2021 11:36

@OldTurtleNewShell

I haven't read it yet but I don't get it. How did we get to a point where it's legal to lock women in with sex offenders? Fuck me, but women's rights have a long way to go.
That isn't what it says. The policy expressly requires transgender women who pose a danger to other prisoners to be strictly separated. It's a matter of risk assessment. The statistics are interesting - between 2016 and 2019 there were 97 sexual assaults in women's prisons, of which 7 were committed by transgender women without a GRC. Those 7 assaults were unacceptable, but the 90 assaults by other women were equally unacceptable.
FlibbertyGiblets · 02/07/2021 11:36

Feel a bit glum about this.

Rhannion · 02/07/2021 11:35

Ffs !!!! What happens now?

highame · 02/07/2021 11:34

I've just read the judgement and a bit speedily, but although the claim itself is lost, there are some things in there that do not mean 'all is lost'. There is a lot of emphasis on reiterating the process and procedures and it may be that these have not been followed properly. There is also a requirement for proper figures to be kept.

It also looks as though the judgement says everyone's safety must be taken into account. In the case of sexual assualt and rape cases, these have to be held in a seperate wing (E) I think, which is in the women's estate but there are no links to the women.

Someone will put me right but just for the minute I'm not thinking all is lost though I think dials media stuff is spot on. This should get some traction

ArabellaScott · 02/07/2021 11:33

@NotAlwaysWrong

The conflation of Gender and Sex - and the idea that thinking yourself a different gender automatically changes your sex - is where the fucking rot set in here. I can’t believe what I’m reading. Is this truly the law?

So, what happens now because this CANNOT be allowed to stand.

This is exactly the crux. Legally, we need 'sex' and 'gender' to be crystal clear. We need absolutely watertight definitions that are clearly understood by everyone.

They need to be applied to every relevant policy and piece of legislation.

Tibtom · 02/07/2021 11:32

It is worth remembering at thia point who has been training the judiciary...

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 02/07/2021 11:31

@moreofthisagain

FFS. Had a feeling it would end up going this way, still shit though. Gave it a skim and saw bits about oh the data, the data is too small blah blah blah

The data on male violence against women is not small though is it?

And all women who are assaulted by the move from sex segregated to gender segregated spaces are women who have ONLY been assaulted because of that move. They would NOT have been assaulted under sex segregation.

Women's bodies and bodily autonomy are not collateral damage.

Last night I rewatched Shirley Chisolm's speech when she sought the Democratic Party's Presidential Nomination. Her campaign slogan was Unbought and unbossed - she argued for the need for women and especially black women to be visible in politics. The YT of her speech is embedded in this article.

www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/unbought-and-unbossed-when-black-woman-ran-for-the-white-house-180958699/

Direct YT link to speech:

The speech stresses that the concerns of some groups will never be listened to, nor addressed, when they're absent from all places where policies are made (I'm paraphrasing). I'm deeply troubled that so many women politicians are prepared to support this abuse of women in plain sight. We need GC voices in policy-making - at a time when some people are trying to have them removed.

ArabellaScott · 02/07/2021 11:31

@dyslek

Ah, I see. Not enough women have been raped and killed yet to justify inconvieniencing men.
I don't know that those 'subjective' experiences of women will be enough to outweight the far more important legal rights of males.
ZuttZeVootEeeVro · 02/07/2021 11:31

The MoJ needs to be pressure into publishing their criteria for deciding whether a male person is of no risk, or when that risk is acceptable.

Given the legal systems reluctance to see, let alone prosecute for rape and sexual assault, I'm not holding my breath.

Clymene · 02/07/2021 11:27

Arseholes. Well at least they've made it very clear how little they care about women.

And the exposure this brings to this appalling dismissal of women's rights to be safe will be a good thing.

DoctorTwo · 02/07/2021 11:27

If this is justice, I'm a banana. This is where we are, it's disgusting.

dyslek · 02/07/2021 11:27

Ah, I see. Not enough women have been raped and killed yet to justify inconvieniencing men.

OvaHere · 02/07/2021 11:26

@NotAlwaysWrong

The conflation of Gender and Sex - and the idea that thinking yourself a different gender automatically changes your sex - is where the fucking rot set in here. I can’t believe what I’m reading. Is this truly the law?

So, what happens now because this CANNOT be allowed to stand.

I expect what happens is what happens with all historical atrocities committed against women. It continues to happen for many years, decades even with people denying and dismissing the truth.

The harms perpetuated will grow bigger and bigger, some women will probably die. Then eventually one day it will be finally to big to ignore and then the handwringing will begin along with all the op-eds about 'how could this happen?' and 'lessons learned'.

teawamutu · 02/07/2021 11:26

@Worrysaboutalot

Surely this result is just saying MOJ can choose not to use the exemptions to exclude men from the women's estate.

However MOJ could choose to use the exemptions to exclude men from the women's estate.

So now public opinion has to pressure MOJ to use the exemptions, as situations like this is why the exemptions exist!

Well put. MoJ now has to defend the decision in public.

And the way things have changed over the last year or so, that will be interesting.

Tibtom · 02/07/2021 11:25

The was a judicial review of policy - could the claimant sue the MOJ for harm or sex discrimination?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 02/07/2021 11:25

Haven't read the judgement yet but this is an absolute disgrace. The safety and privacy of women means nothing.

DialSquare · 02/07/2021 11:25

I come from a background where many people I grew up with could have/did end up in prison. I've visited male relatives in prison many times. I could have been one of these women but I was one of the very lucky ones who ended up in a good job at 16 and worked my way up to a very healthy disposable income. I'm fucking furious and am willing to use that income to contribute to any further crowd funding that may be required for this.

Worrysaboutalot · 02/07/2021 11:20

Surely this result is just saying MOJ can choose not to use the exemptions to exclude men from the women's estate.

However MOJ could choose to use the exemptions to exclude men from the women's estate.

So now public opinion has to pressure MOJ to use the exemptions, as situations like this is why the exemptions exist!

NotAlwaysWrong · 02/07/2021 11:20

The conflation of Gender and Sex - and the idea that thinking yourself a different gender automatically changes your sex - is where the fucking rot set in here. I can’t believe what I’m reading. Is this truly the law?

So, what happens now because this CANNOT be allowed to stand.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 02/07/2021 11:19

So they are locking up women - who are mostly in jail for non violent crimes - with (fill in the rest - I don’t want a ban here) and they somehow think that this is fair?

All we need is for the social media ninnies to resurrect the ‘Free the Wethersfield One’ campaign to get the ball rolling on this one. Hayley helped get us here in the first place...

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