Political lesbianism /*choosing* to be a lesbian

16SerendipitousDreams

That's interesting, so it was more about creating a safe matriarchal micro society, which I can imagine would have been wonderful for many women

It's a shame they decided to appropriate the word 'Lesbian' because that's not the right word for a non lesbian woman who chooses to live in a matriarchal society

This.

I have found that as time has went on, I don't have much of an attraction to men. I always thought I was probably straight, but I don't think that anymore considering I've gotten my eyes opened at male nature. I'm not saying sexuality is a choice, but when your eyes are opened and you're not a handmaiden/pickme it's very hard to muster any attraction to males. I'm glad I've realised this at 23. I'd class myself as bisexual even though I know there's a lot of hatred geared towards bi women. It's unfortunate, but things rarely change anyway. I know I won't bother having a serious relationship with a male and I'm very happy about that.

NRatched, it's only become really annoying when the definition of lesbian became sucha loosey-goosey thing that I'm now very reluctant to join any lesbian groups (if I could find them) in case there's a bloke lesbian there.

I mean, I've said before that I am all for being a lesbian to be regarded as such a positive thing that it's no wonder a woman would want to be one. I think that's be a fabulous thing to happen culturally so that young lesbians don't feel inhibited in the slightest about who they are.

But I accept I am an oddity. A currently very celibate oddity who has more cuddles with my dog than a woman.

I have had relationships with men and women. In my 30s, during a long term relationship I identified as lesbian. It was important to her and I went with the flow. I guess that is choosing to some extent? I identify as bi now.

Our definition of a political lesbian is a woman-identified woman who does not fuck men.

See, this is not being a lesbian to me at all?! This is just..not having sex with men. I guess the word lesbian is not mine to gatekeep being bi myself rather than gay, but if I was lesbian that would annoy me a lot I think. Its annoying when I am NOT a lesbian!

I'm bi and if my DH were no longer here, I think I would prefer to date women rather than men. The sexism always comes up at some point - I can't really be arsed any more. Is that a political statement? Possibly.

I a lesbian and I'm tempted. Wonder if I'm a bit too long in the tooth for the effort of sex but a companion for cuddles would be lovely.

The point about political lesbianism is you don't have to have sex with women. You just reject relationships with men and perhaps have a close companionship type relationship with another woman.

If I was straight I think I'd be tempted!

I've wondered if lockdown could have tempted any women into political lesbianism. Spending 24/7 with a male partner could be very tedious.

I'd like to say my lesbianism is political but it's not, I just fancy women.

Just to say that my post was made thinking there was only one page of comments, so is in response to comments on that page.

Also it is interesting how those who control the narrative can change what is seen as the history of feminism.

Revolutionary Feminists were seen very much as the new girls on the block, just trying a bit too hard to somehow be different. Most of what they said was already the common understanding of Radical Feminism (not to be conflated with current RadFem). But ... Radical Feminisn being based on the shared experience of women did mean that some Radical Feminists were heterosexual, living and working with men. So some Radical Feminists groups chose to become Radical Feminists Lesbian Separatist.

The big difference between Radical Feminism and Revolutionary Feminism, is that the first is based on being pro woman, the second is based on being anti men.

I think some of that difference in core understanding can be seen in the way some women challenge the trans narrative.

If you believe TWAW, it doesn't stand.

No, it doesn't. And it's pretty insulting to suggest that lesbians, whose sexuality is based on both partners being women, should be considering men.

It's just the wrong name. There's nothing wrong with separatism. It's not my choice, but I understand it.

Calling it political lesbianism in the current context is counter-productive, imo.

I'm not a fan of the born-this-way-narrative, as someone who has been subjected to conversion therapy, it's always felt like an excuse - 'I can't help being a lesbian' - well, ok, but I have chosen to embrace my lesbian orientation after a long time fighting it, and I want to underline that it's a positive thing, not a passive or negative thing that I only embrace because I have to.

That's not the same as political lesbianism or a bisexual woman deciding to stick with women, but this is a grey area because I did call myself bisexual for a time and that was rooted in the same kind of internalized homophobia that led me to all night exorcism sessions to cure me.

I'm not in the least convinced that any heterosexual male is born with a specific attraction to women who are exclusively attracted to females

On AGP... The desire to be seen as female is directly connected to their sexuality, so the women who they are attracted to have to be attracted to females, or it won't work.
Whether a man is born with AGP I very much doubt. Porn has a lot to answer for.

But sorry, huge tangent on a very interesting thread.

I think without placing this within the context of separatism you get side tracked into thinking it is about chosing one's sexuality.

Many women led a separatists life, without necessarily going as far as setting up a separatists commune.

However choosing to have as little to do with men as possible because so much time and emotional and sexual energy went into propping them up, was the political choice.

Whether from that you then chose to be or have lesbian relationships or become (politically) celibate was part of that politics.

In fact at one time there was a move that all women should wear a badge saying "lesbian" to make a statement to men that as a woman you weren't sexually available to them.

Women's Liberation politics wasn't about "choice" feminism, it was about a lived experience.

And in fact when you look at the number of women who come out as lesbian later in live, its hard not to think that most women identify as heterosexual because that is the default social pressure. Not only to be sexually available to men, but to become pregnant! ie if heterosexuality is compulsory then to chose not to do that is a political act against the class of men.

How a common starting point can be found, as pp may have said, is difficult.

Do women need one?

Sorry... I realise I'm contributing to this thread discussing men, when it is surely a topic in which only their irrelevance is relevant.

A key part of being a lesbian is being a woman. If you are male and are attracted to women that's being heterosexual.

NonnyMouse1337 Transwomen/AGPs don't tend to claim they're choosing to be lesbians, they use a 'born this way' narrative.

True, good point. 🤔

I identified as bi, but actually don't ever want to sleep with, be physically or emotionally intimate with, live with or have a relationship with a man ever again.
Wrt to women, I love living alone, and am happily single at the moment.

If you go with a Kinsey scale logic I can easily see that there will be a chunk of women who could be more attracted to men but choose to focus on women. Yes, it's about being attracted to the individual but group characteristics have an effect too. So I can see those women 'choosing' to be lesbians. Obviously that is very different from saying it is in any way okay to try conversion therapy on someone. At the end of the day you have to respect, not compel individual's sexuality. (Consent mattering on all sides).
Also what is a romantic relationship? Plenty of straight marriages are devoid of sex, some happily so.
I think it's very interesting how the way we talk about human sexuality, which in an underlying way doesn't really change, differently over time.