I have seen that article you looked at Delia. It looks very doubtful to me because it is very racist. They say that a BBC documentary about Hardcore in 2004 came up with these facts, but I can't find any corroboration of that.

Out of the billions of people on this earth, the upbringing of some children who are abused will cause them also to become abusers. It is not the majority, but it does apply to some. That abuse can come from both mothers and fathers.

Funny that MH doesn't have a hatred of the men who abused his mother.

It is astounding isn't it, the amount of power, the downtrodden members of the oppressed sex class are able to wield over their oppressors?

Dislike of women ?...are you mad ? I'd best tell my DH and give him a chuckle.

Try dislike of generalities & untruths that only serve to obfuscate and hinder the cause. Believe me I find the subject as repelant and vile as you obviously do, and anything that can be done to prevent it is to be applauded, but that has to start with the reality, not ideology. Being told to fuck off for trying to point that out saddens me as it means you have no chance whatsoever of making any difference as you have no understanding of anything outside of your own ideological bubble.

I can't be arsed with making excuses for evil. I think sometimes there is no reason for why someone turns out to be a hideous human being. Sometimes I think people are just wired that way.

And yes abusive childhoods create damaged adults. However every adult has a choice. Christ there are loads of people on mumsnet who had abusive upbringings (me included) who have made a conscious CHOICE not to be a sadistic bastard when they are older.

Oh christ I missed that - town whore.

It is bad enough that we have got pricks like Andre on this thread, without the whole damn discussion of what is essentially torture of women for the gratification of men being boiled down to extremely amateur psychology on domineering/cossetting/promiscuous (delete crime as appropriate) mothers creating psychopaths.

Good post, GOML.

I've just finished watching that doc and am feeling really fucking depressed.

I knew porn industry was bad, but to see it (and know that this isn't nearly as bad as it can get) was horrible. Things are more extreme all the time too, so god knows wtf goes on now.

Anyone who thinks women 'chose' to be involved in porn need to watch this. SOme 'choice'.

I keep thinking about that chilling documentary, Felicity, her daughter and those fucking evil men.

And am deeply depressed that there are probably more heinous crimes being committed in the name of porn that I know about.

Someone mentioned that horrible thing that Max Hardcore did with a speculum and urinated, I am utterly aghast at someone doing that, and wondering at the mentality of anyone who watches it? WHO would find that sexually exciting and gratifying to watch? And how fucking naive am I that I have to ask.

I am just utterly appalled by it. What is wrong with men who degrade women like this? And how can that man (and others) have got away eith it for so long.

In a link above is references Ron Jeremy, who says that he doesn't like porn nowadays as it is all about 'how many dicks you can fit in one asshole' and is about sadistic sex. He also says he 'only does porn when there is a smile on a woman's face'. How in the name of arse has Ron fucking Jeremy become the acceptable and mild apologist for porn? He was involved in a notorious mass gang bang of a Singaporean girl whose name I can't remember, she was filmed having sex with over 400 men in one sitting. I watched a documentary on that and she was truly disturbed.

I cannot believe that anyone can be supportive of the porn industry when despicable acts and despicable men like this are in the middle of it all.

Jesus christ how many of us on this thread have been on the perennial porn threads on mumsnet, and been shouted down, scorned and mocked when we say (a) we hate porn and (b) so do our partners. Thank christ and all his cherubim that my DP feels it is revolting as I do.

MH's i read it somewhere last night
I was a very tired tbh

its not about 'blaming the mother' but seeing his mother in that world being sbused by men

Delia, whose mother? I am not sure who you are talking about.

I hope thats inline with what K999 was trying to say.

Shes not singling out mothers but I read somewhwere that his mother was bascially the town whore, and everyone knew it in Racine (which is like being a drunk in ireland)

its not an excuse and doesnt explain his obsession with young'uns

but he seems to have a hatred of women who appear promiscuous like a way of humiliating them they she humiliated him. explains the hatrerd and the fact his role model he saw being exploited it would normalize it. I;m not saying its an excuse but my mother saw it and works in psychology and claimed thers a definate link and tbh I bet the field of psychiology would have a field day with him .

odvioulsy that alone would not create this monster or maybe it could, if the prostitution was done in the home. many disturbed men the punters were brought back home and saw their mother being abused.

This is an interesting article about the impact on future serial killers of their upbringing by domineering and abusive fathers and mothers.

www.wowessays.com/dbase/af5/dtb172.shtml

Dittany said;

"I think Meg Baldwin might be a bit confused about the source of the violence that men enact against prostituted women. They go to prostituted women in order that they can abuse them, in order that they can be violent to them and get away with it. They are enjoying the power over aspect. They aren't having tender feelings that they can't deal with so they lash out - the violence is planned. As it was planned by all those men against Felicity. They were all working out what they could get away with doing to her."

I think you are right here too. I think there are the men who seek out vulnerable women in order to abuse them, but I also think there are men who think that they are just plain entitled to sex when they want it and who may well ft into Meg Baldwin's schema. (With regards to prostituted women)

On the other hand I do think that the vast vast majority of men in porn do it because they get kicks out of the cruelty and power. I guess there might be some who are there because they see women as fucktoys and no more - christ and these are the less bad ones IYSWIM.

In other words, most of the men in porn are evil bastards who enjoy women being abused and some of the men (and these are the 'nicer' ones) don't care that women are being abused as long as they get to stick their dicks in one. Remind me why this shit isn't illegal again?

Why? Why do some men think they have the right to interrupt women's conversations in a feminist space all the bloody time with their 'me me me' and their The World According To Me and their What, I, Me Think About Other Posters?

Is it because their entitlement, privilege and obliviousness renders them too stupid to actually engage in humane civilised intelligent on topic discussion?

And to top it they are all so bloody tedious and samey. It always ends in a bit of hate speak involving genitals because they can't seem to get their minds off the mighty penis.

Thankfully we have some normal male posters here who contribute positively to this board.

I hope this discussion will not be totally derailed by all the crap that is cluttering it up. I might start a thread later about some of the issues that have come up here such as; why the violence and cruelty in porn?

Andre-your posts are completely nonsensical. I hope that your posts are removed and your membership revoked. Please go away.

JessinAvalon

You need to be more sure of yourself.

bedlambeast

I'm only speaking truthfully.

I think there's an expression that women use about growing tits, previously expressed by men and having balls, and now, I'm told, something about mojo. If such things are banned on MN, then so be it. All the better for you.

Going to bed - nite nite.

Yup, I've also reported.

Andre-ok, enough of the crap you are posting on here. You're getting very offensive now. I've reported both of your latest posts. I'm not sure how you are still a member.

what about money?

www.guardian.co.uk/books/2001/mar/17/society.martinamis1

i found this interesting. im not doubting that people like MH are sadistic and enjoy hurting and humiliating young women, but money is a big draw too, and porn makes money.