Eltham College Blackheath Prep Merger

@Ranyyups - I think Eltham is now for rich families with 2-3 kids of different sex who want a local school, happy to just pay up, want all kids in same school, no 11 plus stress, lots of holidays/big cars type of family from Blackheath and Bickley/Chislehurst area- who want an easy option and don’t want kids to travel too far for schooling.
So not for pushy parents who want top schools like Westminster or Sevenoaks or Alleyns or Jags and want their kids to travel and work incredibly hard. So for former family, they may want 7 plus and then relax.

@Lola8858 - unfortunately a lot of private schools do this with kids who are very sporty or musical. They push them into doing so much of that so they compete or perform constantly when in reality the future employment opportunities in those areas are minimal and reserved for the very very top only.

The private schools have invested so much in sports and music teachers themselves that they are having to find some kids who do a ton of this and also to compete with other schools. For a child doing hours of sports or music every week is very tiring and so of course, it is a distraction and they have less energy for academics. In the upside though, you should take comfort in the fact that your son is probably incredibly healthy and life is not just about money and job prospects. And if he is very intelligent he can retrain into banking or law or similar - it will just be a longer path.

I know three boys who moved to Colfes from Eltham college. They are all happy in Colfes. In Eltham there are about 22-24 pupil in each classroom... I think its too much for independent school. Eltham college is okay for boys but still boys are heavier so I dont recommend it for girls.When we visited almost all teachers were man - so my daughter didnt wanted to go. And I felt like its so silly to move to Eltham juniors.. they dont let pupil to try 11+... I know a family who receiver %65 bursary from other independent school so they decided to move their child as they think its worth to pay less. So its not sensible to join Eltham Collge in year 3 and stay there until 18. There are aldı great grammer schools so its good to try. In genaral I think we are so unlucky with the independent schools in South East London. South West or North has better options. But locally I prefer Colfes for boys and Blackheath/Bromley High for girls.

My son used to study in eltham senior (his choice) - eltham is good school but definately its not in same level with Dulwich. And its not warm place like colfes or Blackheath high (my opinion). My daughter is in Blackheath High she received better gcse grades than my son. I was planning for her go to eltham or colfes 16th form (because they are mixed 6th form) but she prefered to stay in Blackheath. She will be studying medicine in Imperial but my son did lots of sport in eltham and to be honest in the end he didnt get good results from the stem subjects. Eltham helped my son to go in competitions which is good but we paid lots of fees for almost 15 years and now he a p.e teacher and not earning really well. He was so good at maths and english in the primary but then he focused so much to the sport and i believe that effected his grades. My son could study science, maths or english in other 6th form but eltham said us he should focus on sport because he is good at sport (eltham really cares about the results which i hate it). And my son didnt want to change the school in that time so he studied whatever they advised to us. My son now wish he studied something different but there is nothing we can do. All these school are good but i think the are all in same level. Do not focus on gcse results or league tables. To be honest i know lot of children who is so happy in colfes or Blackheath high But my experience with eltham was not so good.

I don't know much about the junior school but on the whole, Eltham gives preference to siblings. So if they 'pass' the test (maybe not excelling), they will take younger siblings. So then, if you look at the progress score for Eltham, I'd wager they're way ahead. Remember, unlike Colfe's where there is an internal exam for progressing to senior school, that is not the case at Eltham so they manage to produce great results despite being less selective for their internal intake than most other schools.

I wouldn't be surprised if Eltham is back where they've been for years and years, i.e. ahead of Dulwich/Colfe's etc, in a year's time.

Actually, yes, Colfe's much more generous re scholarships, both academic and sports. A few backs, but some boys were offered 25% sports scholarships at Colfe's whilst not even being called in for assessment at Eltham.

Similarly, some were offered 50% academic at Colfe's and 'only' 20% at Eltham. Maybe more people are also tempted by these in a cost of living crisis?

@lookatthat2 l know a lot of parents who prefered colfes over eltham college. Elthams gcse grades are not good at all. Colfes gcse grades was much better than Eltham last year. One of my friends daughter had an offer from eltham college junior and she is so avarage in all subjects, even her parents says that. And when u consider that eltham is more selective because their first entry point is 7+ they are not doing great job at all.

lookatthat2 I do think people choose Colfes over Eltham.

It may be in part because Colfes are seen as offering more financial discounts but also I think they are seen as a school on the up.

I do not hear of much academic discount for Eltham.

I think the inflated grades have really damaged Eltham.

This is all true. Eltham wasn't the only school. Maybe if there was coursework, with more parents perhaps being in professional (flexible jobs) at a school like Eltham, certain schools had the uplift of more parental 'input'? Ultimately, if coursework is presented, schools have to accept it as is, unless obviously cheating going on?

But, lots of high achieving schools - state/private - overestimated and, as someone else said on there, maybe kinder than underestimating in a way.

But, just so we're clear, regardless of Colfe's being a great school, for years and years, it has never been seen as even near Eltham in terms of academics. I have honestly not heard of anyone accepting Colfe's ahead of Eltham, even now. We have friends' friends who have kids (siblings) at both schools and, although happy, I'd say most would still prefer Eltham. Believe it or not, Eltham is a lovely, happy school where pastoral care - despite perhaps coming across as stuffy during Open Days - is very much on the forefront and has been for 30+ years!

Eltham College

A-level A* grades (2019) 29.1%
A-level A* grades (2021) 72.2%

Percentage point increase in A* grades at A-level 43.1

Why would anyone want to go there?

Genuine question? Have they managed to change their culture rapidly?

I mean those 2021 results just look like they completely gamed the system.

I wonder how they explain that to prospective parents and at open days?

43.1

Genuine question - after the results fudge during covid why would you even consider Eltham College as a school? Colfes will surely be more popular? Then ofcourse you have the cost of living crisis which will impact some fee paying parents but not all.

However, in all reality why on earth would you consider Eltham College after the grades fiasco? All that money and privilege and they had to go ask for even more marks, obviously something was not right with the management of the school? Has that changed or not?

@TJsAunt I'm not defensive - but like to be factual - but I still wonder what is your skin in the game? Are you an admissions tutor at one of the other schools e.g. Colfe's, St Dunstan, Dulwich? ;)

EC was/is very oversubscribed. I heard of friends' whose sibling sons did not get a place even though highly academic (passing Bexley/Kent etc). I think there was probably only a small handful of places for boys this year. Of course they're keen to attract girls but these are bright sparks too. Many had places at other academic schools (e.g. Newstead Woods, TOGS, Alleyn's, City etc) but chose EC, possibly due to location or having a sibling there already. Not everyone wants to travel for hours each day! Many boys joining senior school have in the past turned down St Olave's, Dulwich, Trinity and even heard some who chose Eltham ahead of Westminster.

So again, @TJsAunt why such animosity towards the school? What is your relationship to it? Did your child/ren not get the school place (wherever that might have been) that you'd wanted?

@TJsAunt - no I didn’t get the wrong end of the stick regarding Rugby. I was merely pointing out that contact rugby may become a thing of the past, even for schools like Eltham College due to the risk of injury.

A neighbour mentioned EC gets 10 applications for every place at 11 plus. Clearly this is anecdotal, but I have no reason to not believe that to be true. Of course it is easier to get in at 7 plus and stay.

EC is massively oversubscribed! Not sure about this year but last year, the queue winding its way out from reception during open day was insane! I've dropped my kids off for their compulsory open day tour guide duties and I've never seen anything like it! I think there was at least 1,000 families (as opposed to 300 or so a pre-Covid and before co-ed, which was still oversubcribed for the places available)! Not saying everyone then went on to apply but my guess is that many did. Certainly didn't seem to be many places left for external boys once the junior lot moved up and girls came in.

I'm sure Dulwich gets lots of applications too but they are trading on a long history/tradition and are closer to London too.

@WannaBeAYummyMummy @Intergalacticcatharsis
Well said, both!

EC is now a very oversubscribed school due to recently going Co-Ed?

If the years coming up to GCSEs now are the final years of all boys and the school may have struggled to get bums on seats in those years, surely it follows that it is reasonably foreseeable that their grades won’t be as good? Because for those years, the school was less selective. If less kids apply, there is less competition.

There are some really popular well known schools listed in that Daily Mail article including in the state sector. I doubt anyone is going to not apply to Tiffin now because of this or Putney High? Cardiff Sixth Form College, for example, has always been known for top A level results. Some people may see this as a good thing- schools who put their own pupils’ interest first in a pandemic?

Dulwich College is a great school, but yes, the boys being targeted and mugged for their phones is a well known rumour that has been going around for years.

On the subject of Rugby, who knows how long schools will continue to play contact rugby. Recently, there have been lots of schools worried about the health and safety implications so it looks like Tag may be the future anyway or specific insurances. It is certainly something many schools in all sectors are looking at closely at the moment.

There will be annoyed parents in every school. There are always more annoyed parents when schools implement big changes like going Co-Ed.

I'm not avoiding the "scandal". I don't think it is a scandal - although there was probably some poor judgement applied. I am a governor at two other schools and the TAG/CAG system was utterly ridiculous. In fact, one of the other schools I am involved with probably used even poorer judgement but it wasn't picked up by the press. I think schools that under-graded their kids are probably just as culpable. I mean, none of it was ideal. I certainly don't see any of it as some unassailable truth about the long-term moral compass of a given school though - it was a poor situation that was dealt with very differently by different schools.

The LOL about the rugby team was because rugby is always somehow brought up in any threads about schools like these. What relevance does it have that they played rugby or not? Either they were treated unfairly or they weren't. As @lookatthat2 says, a lot of schools have some kind of entry requirements for sixth form and you either meet them or you don't. Pastoral care has always been excellent for my kids but, again, I can only speak from experience and I'm sure you'd find others keen to tell you that it is the most dreadful school ever created if that's what you want. You'd find that for almost every school in the UK I suspect.

@WannaBeAYummyMummy Yes, agree with this.

@TJsAunt Mottingham does have some roads which are a bit rough looking but most of the roads nearest to the school, and which the kids pass to get to local buses aren't. Lots of kids use the local buses and have done for years. Not far from Mottingham is of course lovely Chislehurst, Bickley with Petts Wood beyond. A lovely area to live in. People rarely move away once they've been established here.

@TJsAunt Can I ask what your connection with the school is? Has something happen to you/your kids which has made you feel such animosity?

I don't think it's unusual for kids to be told if they're not up to the level of Sixth Form. Most (all?) Sixth Form Colleges have entry criteria so lots of kids move around at that point, not at all unusual - happens in comprehensives, grammars and other independents. It's just that the entry criteria for EC are so high (same as other academic schools).

Although mine are fortunately not in any of the key (GCSE/A-level) years, I've heard that the boys that have and will likely leave this year, are simply not academic enough or have been somewhat disruptive. I know parents in the GCSE year and these kids' parents were told ages ago and were recommended to look elsewhere for their boys as unlikely to make the grades.

I'm not sure why, but it does seem that quite a few of these have happened to be rugby players. Maybe all that testosterone? I'm guessing it will be similar in other schools with the difference that those schools have a formal entry exam when you move from junior to senior school, so they have the ability to sift kids out earlier.

My kids are at EC and we are pretty happy with it. It sure ain't perfect but I'd love you to show me a school that is.

Lol at the comment about the rugby team boys last year. I think it's really easy to throw these comments around online but, as ever, the context of these decisions is rarely fully known.

Every school will suit some kids down to the ground, and others not at all. Indeed my two kids sometimes feel like they are at different schools.

The area the school is in is a typical gritty suburban London area. An area where a few streets can massively skew the crime figures - as I suspect is the case here with the area around Dunkery Road which isn't exactly on the doorstep of the average EC pupils commute. When I was a teen I was actually mugged in the road directly outside Dulwich College so in my direct experience, Dulwich is actually more unsafe 🤷🏼‍♀️

Actually Eltham College was in the top 4 most over-inflated grades out of all schools in the entire country: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10482061/Private-schools-gamed-Covid-double-grades-investigation-finds.html . And the Mottingham area is indeed known to have higher rates of various offences / crime: https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/bromley-orpington-beckenhams-most-dangerous-2715379