America's Gun Control

U of Texas 1966

I don't see anything changing anytime soon. There's been mass shootings in America for many, many years. The man who shot people from the university tower was in the early 60s I think so 60 years ago.

And I also 100% agree with ur last statment.

I'm not thinking of writing on mumsnet about them because they haven't been in the news and isn't a current topic rightly or wrongly.
And I'm guessing that American in genral clearly pretty obviously has different values to us I mean mass shootings keep happening. So the people in power (very clearly aware of the difficulty to change law as a citizen.) decide the laws on gun very clearly has different values to me, im shocked that they do and it angers me. I dont think being upset that Innocent children dying in schools is a massively out there value, i would kinda hope most of the world would not want innocent children dying regardless of reason. So it's not for the reasons u suggest.

I'm not sure of percentage either. But it's definitely not none, as the person was suggesting all of Americans want change. I think a lot r happy with how things currently are and surely politicians wouldn't be able to make laws like open carry restently if they didn't have a lot of general public agreeing with them. Republicans seem to be trying/succeeding to make laws even more lax they obviously must have supporters beliving current laws are to restricted

Rainbowsandbutterflies1990
What I think will happen is mass shootings will still keep happening more children will die. Nothing will be done but in 20/30 years maybe longer, from now u will get the first generation who have actually had to live though this either from trauma from being at a mass shooting and witnessing their friends die or know someone who has been in one.

Unfortunately taken in a population of 300,000,000, the fewer-than-300 killed in mass shootings at schools are not going to make a very big dent.

There are quite a few survivors old enough to be worrying about their own children already. Columbine was in 1999, Red Lake in 2005, Virginia Tech in 2007, Sandy Hook in 2012, Parkland in 2018, Santa Fe High School in 2018, Oxford High School in 2021, and people caught up in those are mostly/many of them old enough to vote by now. Many university campus shootings have happened, too, and everyone from those has a vote at a guess.

@sorrynotathome - excellent summary, and you're completely correct. We think Americans have a similar culture to us because of the "special relationship" but they absolutely do not. I'm not saying ours is better or worse - just that we are very different. I do agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence, though.

I haven’t read all the replies but just wanted to make a point. All the people here who “don’t understand the culture” - have you ever considered that Americans have different values to us? Just because they speak a similar language doesn’t mean they share our values or culture. Are you calling for tighter gun control in Colombia? In Sierra Leone? In Jordan? In Tajikistan? Probably not, because you probably think their culture & values are very different from ours. I think US gun laws are nuts but I also think their racism, incarceration culture and attitudes to women are nuts.

Ignoring the fact that Roe v Wade wasn't a law but a supreme court ruling which meant the same body could overturn it fairly easily, you've kind of proved my point that it's the system that works against popular opinion. Access to abortion and guns share the same underlying issue. Both have majority support amongst the people but both the political and legal system have been manipulated to ensure that the minority are making the laws.

This snippet of a Jon Stewart interview with an Oklahoma state senator (different from the senators in DC) is very revealing and well worth watching

Where is that statistic from please? Im not sure what "a large percentage" actually is. I did find a link to the latest Gallup polling on gun control which says that 57% of Americans want better gun control.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

@Rainbowsandbutterflies1990

But there is a large percentage of Americans who belive it's not embarrassing , ridiculous or inappropriate, the gun laws. They want what laws to stay. They have their guns and they have a right to them and that's it. Regardless of children dying. And dont want anything changing. Obviously including congress. And a few people on this thread seemed to have this view.

Over 70% of Americans, even including those who own guns, want some form of gun control. However, the states where this is not the case have an outsized influence over politics.

@Ktime

I completely agree that much change is for the worse at this moment, but it's apples and oranges because while there are constitutional rights around Roe, they centre around more generalised, less clear-cut issues and are not specific to abortion. Unfortunately, guns are a much thornier issue.

But there is a large percentage of Americans who belive it's not embarrassing , ridiculous or inappropriate, the gun laws. They want what laws to stay. They have their guns and they have a right to them and that's it. Regardless of children dying. And dont want anything changing. Obviously including congress. And a few people on this thread seemed to have this view.

What we are saying (repeatedly and apparently with little impact) is that it is not an easy as a bunch of people saying we don't like this, let's change the law. The us is one country with 50 different smaller countries and hundreds of mini countries all of whom have some influence over the laws in their geographic area. So to make significant change, laws have to be changed at all levels and that is pretty much impossible within the current system.

And yet your Supreme Court voted to overturn Roe vs Wade.

Change is possible for the worse it seems.

I think people are coming to terms with the idea that it won’t change and will keep happening.

Although it’s not just us who hope that would not be the case, whenever it happens you get a flurry of it has to change from US too. I recall the actor doing the speech re the child’s converse which was extremely sad and moving,

So people are exasperated and demanding change there too.

Sigh. I left this thread for a few days in the hope it might have moved on somewhat but I see not. We'll try again. No one who is American or lives here is arguing that the current state of gun control is the US is not ridiculous, embarrassing and not appropriate for a "world leader". What we are saying (repeatedly and apparently with little impact) is that it is not an easy as a bunch of people saying we don't like this, let's change the law. The us is one country with 50 different smaller countries and hundreds of mini countries all of whom have some influence over the laws in their geographic area. So to make significant change, laws have to be changed at all levels and that is pretty much impossible within the current system. The country is big, diverse and a great solution for a city will not be the great solution in a rural area where your nearest store is a 30 minute drive away and the local small police force cover over 100 sq miles of land. Coming onto a thread like this and listening to sweeping generalisations and, quite frankly, rude assumptions people is insulting and ignorant. My biggest hope is the next generation who are the ones who have actually had to live through losing their friends in this way. I hope beyond everything that they learn from the mistakes me and the generation before me made, boot as many of us who argue against them out of power and be the generation I believe they have the potential to be.

It's got to the point where school shootings will barely make the news outside the USA - we get the headline for a day or two 'Another mass shooting in the US' 'Another school shooting in the US' then the news moves swiftly on.

What I think will happen is mass shootings will still keep happening more children will die. Nothing will be done but in 20/30 years maybe longer, from now u will get the first generation who have actually had to live though this either from trauma from being at a mass shooting and witnessing their friends die or know someone who has been in one. Also the potential trauma of having to just know that these things happen, there and no where else. And they will not want to put their own children through it. And hopefully they will try and make change. They will basically question if rights to own weapons is actually more important than the trauma that they live through. I mean I'm hopeful but not 100% convinced. I think the brainwashing is hardwired. I mean if small children being brutally murdered isn't making u at least stop and think then what can! Maybe if it happens to an actual politician they might suddenly clear less about the money. Which I'm obviously not hoping will happen. But I think it's a valid point.

I can see why it's a complete uphill battle why gun reform isn't going to happen very soon if ever. however there is 2 types of Americans here. One side who sees the completely insane way guns have little regulations and mass shootings is a major problem and know its the guns that's the issues. And then the other side who are entitled and say owning a gun is my right bla bla bla, it's obvious why the main reason politicians keep doing nothing about gun reform, they r paid by gun companies and lobbies to do exactly nothing and they clearly care more about money and keeping power than childrens live. But the Ordinary Americans who I do understand to an extent have been brainwashed by the politicians who obviously need them to keep on their side, which they have done by Perpetuating fear. But don't they have to get to a point of waking up and realising their being used by the politicians. Also why can't they just admit yes my right to own my gun is more important to me than random children being murdered. And ask themselves if they would be so gun loving if it was their own child gunned down in school. I feel like their needs to be some honest and pretty brutal conversations which Conveniently are not being had. I feel like if ur going to be entitled and selfish then at least own it. And if ur not owning it then maybe u have to ask ur self why.

All those US politicians wearing little AR-15 pins on their labels, absolutely sickening.

Two snippets of news as reported in America today might help people to see what an uphill struggle gun reform is here. No, it doesn't make sense but this is what we have to deal with:

Kevin McCarthy suggested that lawmakers need to see “all the facts” before they consider any gun legislation following the shooting in Nashville where seven people were killed. The Nashville shooting was the 130th mass shooting incident in this U.S. this year, so far. Democrats planned to introduce a measure to boost federal research into the cause of gun violence, but it has little chance of passing the Republican-controlled House. Republican congressman Tim Burchett, meanwhile, said Congress is “not gonna fix” the problem of school shootings and that he doesn’t see a role for Congress in preventing future shootings “other than mess things up.” Instead, the three-term congressman from Tennessee suggested that Americans should focus on more thoughts and prayers, saying: “If you want to legislate evil, it’s just not going to happen. We need a real revival in this country. Let’s call on our Christian ministers and our people of faith.” (CNN / Washington Post)
2/ North Carolina residents no longer need a permit to buy a handgun. The state’s Republican-led legislature eliminated the longstanding permit system that required local sheriffs to perform character evaluations and criminal history checks of pistol applicants. Although Democratic Gov. Roy Cooper vetoed the measure, the legislature overrode the veto. The permit repeal takes effect immediately. (Associated Press / USA Today)

The assault weapon ban was successful. Unfortunately given the composition of the Supreme Court, it's quite likely that it would be struck down if re-instituted.

the Washington Post had quite an interesting article the other day on how AR-15s became so common.

It's not even as simple as "The 2nd Amendment is a religion;" these legislatures are passing laws simply because liberals hate them. The more that moderates/liberals/left wingers advocate for any gun control the more conservative states insist that any restrictions are a violation of their rights. It's like one of those finger trap toys.

Just seen this on twitter - there isn’t the appetite for positive change

https://twitter.com/therealandrew_/status/1641123377703268353?s=46&t=7uZ5GLraCHnmbl4o9C79gA

A president couldn't on his own. He'd need Congress on his side to pass gun control laws. And not enough members of Congress would agree, because at best the NRA would fund opponents and get them defeated; at worst their lives would be threatened by violent (and armed) extremists.