America's Gun Control

Which countries have a higher rate of gun ownership than the US?

There is constant discussion about mental health. Trouble is, the same people who wear their AR-15 pins and resist all efforts to address gun violence are the same people who vote against mental health initiatives and funding. They're usually the same ones who receive funding from the NRA. Go figure 🙄

So, while trying to address root causes, why wouldn't you try and stop the mass shootings while you do so?

Hmmm. To be fair, Canada banned assault weapons after the mass shooting you've referenced because that is what civilised countries do. They take action, they do SOMETHING. They don't wear their AR-15 pins to Congress whilst children are being gunned down daily and send out fake prayers and thoughts 🤷‍♀️
The enquiry was separate and absolutely necessary to examine the actions of the RCMP in what became a manhunt. So it came in ADDITION to measures taken to ensure it doesn't happen again.

I watched a documentary a few years ago set in Michigan and a small gun store

Nearly all of the people that came in to buy a gun were doing so because most other people also have a gun

Most were women

There's so many guns in America I don't see how any controls can ever be implemented now

They're out there on the streets in their millions both legally and illegally

CJsGoldfish
Guns are the no.1 cause of deaths of children in the US.
Every other civilised country who have had a mass shooting, especially involving children have said "OMG, this can't happen again, what can we do?" And fucking done it.

To be fair, Canada has only just finished the enquiry into their one (22 dead in 2020) as far as I could make out from the news this morning, and I am not at all sure what action they have taken as yet apart from blaming the police for all the things they failed to do, such as for instance that the perpetrator had a record of domestic violence which they had failed to address. What the authorities seem to be planning to do in the light of the report is completely refigure the RCMP and provide them with much longer and improved training to try to prevent such a thing from happening again, but that has not yet been actually done.

I am very much not a fan of liberal gun laws so please don't take this point as a gun-nut trying to deflect.

Whilst these horrific events drive the ongoing pro and anti gun debate, I see little discussion about the possible root causes behind mass shootings besides ready access to weapons. One thing the overwhelming majority of school and other mass shootings have in common is that the shooter clearly intended their own life to end as well. Invariably they shoot themselves, other times they get shot by police and appear to have had no intention of escaping. So why is there so little public discussion about the mental health crisis aspect of these incidents? Then we have to ask why are mass shootings so prolific in the USA specifically? There are countries with higher levels of gun ownership than the US that have significantly lower levels of mass shootings. There are also countries with much higher suicide rates that have far fewer mass killings. So if it's neither gun ownership, nor mental health, nor even a combination of the two, what exactly is going on?

Where did you get the idea you can't hunt anything legally with an AR15?

Guns are the no.1 cause of deaths of children in the US.
Every other civilised country who have had a mass shooting, especially involving children have said "OMG, this can't happen again, what can we do?" And fucking done it.
The US sends out some prayers and thoughts and doubles down on the banning of books, drag shows and statues.
They showed us who they were after Sandy Hook when they decided that (other peoples) dead babies are acceptable collateral damage for their right to own a gun 🤷‍♀️

‘How do you tell people who live in Alaska, the Rocky Mountains, the Appalachians, etc., that they can't have a gun for self-defense? In just the past year, I've had a bear on my back deck and packs of coyotes running through my back yard. Copperheads keep trying to take up residence in my driveway culvert, and I've seen a few cats bigger than bob cats about,’

hunting rifle, shot gun - those guns are good for self defence and wild animal control. Same way farmers, hunters, country people, people who have guns for sport in the UK deal with vermin and threats to their livestock.
Unless you’re going at a copper head with a AR15? You sure a hell aren’t hunting anything with an AR15 - not legally anyways.
if you have copperheads, you already know - leave them alone and they’ll leave you an alone for the most part. Same as most snakes.

Trying to imagine any scenario where American children are murdered ( by anyone other than Americans) without the US government going absolutely ballistic-
pun intended

@StarmanBobby

Again, since you seem to have very strong feelings, what are you and your family doing to bring about change? Just keyboard warrioring or anything more? I've seen you doing a lot of finger pointing, but not heard much about action.

There are many, many organisations -in the US - suggesting ways for America to exit this particular nightmare. Including those involving g MONEY, INSURANCE and Law suits.
and let’s face it - given how little anyone seems to care about the lives of children in this argument, money and liability may well end up being the reasons that better gun control finally happens. The dollar rules.

Agree with this, and there has been at least one study showing that school shooters, in particular, are raging misogynists who are also consumed by self hatred.

Their targets are women and children, and where better to find them - sitting ducks really - than in an elementary school. Female teachers are particularly loathed by these murderers because they represent female authority figures in the shooters' childhood, and killing children is a way of symbolically killing off your own self as a weak or powerless child.

How do people - mainly young men - become so consumed by hatred that they go out and buy a weapon and proceed to carry out such evil?

@Florenz "Criminals don't care about insurance. It wouldn't put them off having guns."

Diminishing the number of legal guns in circulation might at least reduce suicides and accidental deaths. Or do those not matter?

Yeah, Remington had finagled some type of bankruptcy pre-settlement, and I think broke up and sold different divisions off, so the payment wasn't even from them. I think though if people keep going at that approach it could add up to more than nuisance money - particularly if insurers start dropping their coverage. It's not an answer, but could be a small piece of the puzzle.

@Wallaw The Sandy Hook parents settled a lawsuit against the gun manufacturer Remington for $75 Million. A nuisance payment for Remington, but there is some potential to be explored in that approach....hopefully.

It’s the school children element that people find hard

That dc can end up with a shooter situation

How many US combatants died in Vietnam, 60k or so?
How many have died in the USA in the last 2/3 years from guns? Way more than that.

half of them suicides.

I think background checks before all gun sales (even private ones) and allowing the gun manufacturers to be sued for mass shootings committed with their weapons (from which they have long been exempt) would be a good start. I believe there are moves toward the second. It takes some clever legal work - this did not succeed after the Las Vegas mass shooting - and the payout was from the insurance company, but were the manufacturers to become uninsurable it would change the landscape.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/15/nyregion/sandy-hook-families-settlement.html

It would still come up against 2A. Shall not infringe.

The second amendment is constantly under review by the courts, stuff that never gets reported in the UK.

Like the feds recent decision to ban extendable stocks for pistols.

Venezuela has some of the strictest gun controls in the western world, yet has some of the highest levels of gun crime and deaths.

The USA is not even in the top ten when it comes to deaths per 100 000 people.

Why are posters not railing at Venezuela?

Criminals don't care about insurance. It wouldn't put them off having guns.

I think that's an idea that hasn't been explored enough yet. I also think requiring insurance would be promising. Nobody wants to piss off their insurance company.

Sorry I missed the word "restrictions" from the sale of bullets

I don't think it's feasible to take away the thousands of guns in people's homes.

But could the manufacturer, importation and purchase of bullets be feasible? Guns will be obsolete without them and they are one use only......

I'm probably being naive at best, but it's a train of thought.

There was another one earlier this week. Or maybe it was the same one. No, I think the first one was Marjorie Taylor Green and the recent one must have been someone else, because if MTG says batshit stuff I tend not to notice any more.

There was a female Republican politician a couple of months ago who was referring to "God-given right...". That's the sort of level of opposition to controls.