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AIBU?

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Original poster

Mums Vs Big Pharma 9pm BBC tonight

39 replies

Unbelievabl · 09/11/2026 15:47

I heard this on the radio this morning.

From the makers of the post office scandal.

It’s already on iplayer so I just watched it. I can’t believe what I have actually just watched.

And to top it I can’t believe the statements the agencies have written at the end.
Just lies. Our government and the associated agencies - just liars. Again and again!

How does this keep happening.

Why do we need a tv show to do the right thing.

It’s literally disgusting behaviour and I am so sick of it.

OP posts:
Original poster
Unbelievabl · 09/11/2026 15:51

JacquesHarlow · 09/11/2026 15:49

Why do we need an "AIBU" thread on it too, @Unbelievabl ?

Surely just post in here next time https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts

Plenty of "traffic" if that's what you seek.

Because it’s not really a telly issue is it. It’s systemic failure, imbedded corruption, again and again.

Anyway yes I am hoping for traffic.

Please feel free to do a post in telly addicts to let people know

OP posts:
Saturdaysfairies · 09/11/2026 15:52

What's it about?

Isittimeformynapyet · 09/11/2026 15:53

Big Pharma is a Big Topic. Can you narrow it down?

(hmm. Fancy a Topic now)

Catza · 09/11/2026 15:53

Saturdaysfairies · 09/11/2026 15:52

What's it about?

Edited

Sodium Valproate which is harmful to unborn babies. That's all I know (mostly from working in MH where we had to make sure that women on SV were also using adequate contraception).
Don't have a TV license so can't watch but I assume it's akin thalidomide scandal.

Just to add in response to the OP: we don't "need a TV show to do the right thing". This is old news and regulations around SV changed quite some time ago. By the time I was working clinically (2020), we were already observing the new guidance.

Original poster
Unbelievabl · 09/11/2026 15:56

Saturdaysfairies · 09/11/2026 15:52

What's it about?

Edited

The agency that was set up in the wake of the thalidomide scandal - one of the first things they did was suppress the tetrogenecity of sodium valoprate (ie. Hid from mothers by removing warnings on boxes that it would likely cause severe problems in their children).

They said oh we can tell the docs. Just not the people. Obviously in however many years that information got lost and doctors in the end didn’t know either.

20000 children affected.
Decades of trying to wiggle out of it.
Only managed to get the warnings on the box after digging up info from the 70s and taking to the government showing they did in fact know all along.
Still no compensation.

OP posts:
Saturdaysfairies · 09/11/2026 15:56

Catza · 09/11/2026 15:53

Sodium Valproate which is harmful to unborn babies. That's all I know (mostly from working in MH where we had to make sure that women on SV were also using adequate contraception).
Don't have a TV license so can't watch but I assume it's akin thalidomide scandal.

Just to add in response to the OP: we don't "need a TV show to do the right thing". This is old news and regulations around SV changed quite some time ago. By the time I was working clinically (2020), we were already observing the new guidance.

Edited
Show quote history

Yes seems to be the topic -
www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgz0pg9d17o

KnickerlessParsons · 09/11/2026 15:58

Is this Roaccutane related?

Original poster
Unbelievabl · 09/11/2026 16:01

KnickerlessParsons · 09/11/2026 15:58

Is this Roaccutane related?

No. Epilim - Sodium Valporate

Used for epilepsy and (now also bipolar according to Google.)

OP posts:
Original poster
Unbelievabl · 09/11/2026 16:07

Just to add in response to the OP: we don't "need a TV show to do the right thing". This is old news and regulations around SV changed quite some time ago. By the time I was working clinically (2020), we were already observing the new guidance.

We clearly do because not a penny has been paid to those affected.

And no it’s not old news. Only in 2018 did they finally agree to add a warning. And only in 2023 did they actually enforce that properly.

https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/news/valproate-boxes-must-now-contain-safety-warnings

Mums have been fighting this since the 90s. They knew about this problem in 1974! The drug manufacturers TOLD the agency literally set up due to the thalidomide scandal.

It’s beyond scandalous. It’s practically evil.

Valproate will now be dispensed in the manufacturer’s original full packaging

Valproate boxes must now contain safety warnings

The MHRA has updated its guidance on dispensing valproate-containing medicines - it will now be dispensed in the manufacturer’s full pack

https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/news/valproate-boxes-must-now-contain-safety-warnings

OP posts:
Cattyisbatty · 09/11/2026 16:07

I watched it on iplayer over lunch. Absolutely heartbreaking for those families, and it was known since the 70s that it caused birth defects.

I’m on anti-seizure meds (not valproate), but thankfully beyond childbearing age, I’d be very careful taking them if I was ttc now.

@KnickerlessParsons- Roaccutane has massive warnings about not becoming pregnant all over the packaging. My DS was on it last year.

Thatcannotberight · 09/11/2026 16:18

KnickerlessParsons · 09/11/2026 15:58

Is this Roaccutane related?

I took Roaccutane in the mid 80s. It was known and warned about by the dermatologists even then.

Cheerfulcharlie · 09/11/2026 16:46

I took Epilim from the early/ mid nineties. It was definitely VERY well communicated to me that it could cause defects in utero when I started taking it -and EVERY time I went for a review of the mediciation over the years.That was in various different GPs in different parts of the country as I moved around over the years. I find it difficult to believe it was not a warning on the box at that stage - I'm pretty sure there was!

Original poster
Unbelievabl · 09/11/2026 18:00

Cheerfulcharlie · 09/11/2026 16:46

I took Epilim from the early/ mid nineties. It was definitely VERY well communicated to me that it could cause defects in utero when I started taking it -and EVERY time I went for a review of the mediciation over the years.That was in various different GPs in different parts of the country as I moved around over the years. I find it difficult to believe it was not a warning on the box at that stage - I'm pretty sure there was!

That’s interesting. And really great for you and your kids. I am very pleased. Perhaps many others have been spared this also by conscientious doctors.

Apparently it wasn’t on the box! It’s shocking. As I said only just found out about this but am inclined to listen considering it’s bbc. Am sure lawyers have verified it all.

I will be honest am surprised by some of the previous responses. Maybe so much keeps happening we have societal apathy.

I am hoping when it airs later there will be a better response and people can add pressure to get these families justice.

OP posts:
Catza · 09/11/2026 18:48

Unbelievabl · 09/11/2026 16:07

Just to add in response to the OP: we don't "need a TV show to do the right thing". This is old news and regulations around SV changed quite some time ago. By the time I was working clinically (2020), we were already observing the new guidance.

We clearly do because not a penny has been paid to those affected.

And no it’s not old news. Only in 2018 did they finally agree to add a warning. And only in 2023 did they actually enforce that properly.

https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/news/valproate-boxes-must-now-contain-safety-warnings

Mums have been fighting this since the 90s. They knew about this problem in 1974! The drug manufacturers TOLD the agency literally set up due to the thalidomide scandal.

It’s beyond scandalous. It’s practically evil.

I am not minimising the impact of this. I am simply saying that this is not new information that BBC "exposed" here. The fact that families have not been compensated is scandalous but the side effects are well known in the medical profession and have been for a long time.

Original poster
Unbelievabl · 09/11/2026 19:11

the side effects are well known in the medical profession and have been for a long time.

Exactly… 😭

Am I in the twilight zone?

What is going on in here tonight.

OP posts:
Prestissimo · 09/11/2026 19:39

I was taught about the potential dangers of sodium valproate in medical school (late 90s) and we definitely knew when I was doing my GP training that women of childbearing age shouldn’t ideally be on it for their epilepsy. The paperwork surrounding prescribing it (and ensuring contraceptive cover) has massively increased in the last decade but I have always been slightly perplexed as to why the powers that be were making a big deal of it, because as far as I could tell there was nothing new.

Maybe they were anticipating a mass-action law suit…

Original poster
Unbelievabl · 09/11/2026 19:53

Prestissimo · 09/11/2026 19:39

I was taught about the potential dangers of sodium valproate in medical school (late 90s) and we definitely knew when I was doing my GP training that women of childbearing age shouldn’t ideally be on it for their epilepsy. The paperwork surrounding prescribing it (and ensuring contraceptive cover) has massively increased in the last decade but I have always been slightly perplexed as to why the powers that be were making a big deal of it, because as far as I could tell there was nothing new.

Maybe they were anticipating a mass-action law suit…

Just of interest; because part of this story was the regulators deciding ‘we will let the doctors know but not the women taking it’.

How are doctors communicated this information separately? Is it in nice guidelines? Or is there something else? A computer system? In the 70s letters?

Because it wasn’t until the 90s when two female researchers had to go through the whole thing again and start a study to actually prove it caused issues. When the drug manufacturers and regulators literally knew this in 1974 when it first was invented.

OP posts:
Flamingojune · 09/11/2026 19:54

JacquesHarlow · 09/11/2026 15:49

Why do we need an "AIBU" thread on it too, @Unbelievabl ?

Surely just post in here next time https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts

Plenty of "traffic" if that's what you seek.

I dont look at the telly addict section. Why cant posters post where they want

Prestissimo · 09/11/2026 20:23

Nowadays we get emails through from the MHRA when regulations are changed around medications, or if new warnings are issued. I don’t know the full history of when that was set up but this seems to give a potted history of the changes to prescribing of valproate:

https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/valproate-use-women-girls-childbearing-years-boys-guidance

As for in the 90s I’ve no idea - obviously the internet was not widely used so I guess there would have been letters sent with important guidance. NICE didn’t exist then. We were, I’m sure, just taught it in our pharmacology (or possibly therapeutics) lectures at medical school, so there was obviously some awareness in the profession even if not as stringently enforced with the more formalised Pregnancy Prevention Programme that is now in place.

The MHRA appears to have been set up in 2003
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicines_and_Healthcare_products_Regulatory_Agency

Valproate use in women, girls of childbearing years and boys - guidance

This page has updated guidance on the medicine, valproate in accordance with regulation changes from the Medicines & Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) in January 2024.

https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/valproate-use-women-girls-childbearing-years-boys-guidance

Nevermissabeat · 09/11/2026 21:27

Another case of mum's / women being ignored.

Original poster
Unbelievabl · 09/11/2026 22:03

Prestissimo · 09/11/2026 20:23

Nowadays we get emails through from the MHRA when regulations are changed around medications, or if new warnings are issued. I don’t know the full history of when that was set up but this seems to give a potted history of the changes to prescribing of valproate:

https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/valproate-use-women-girls-childbearing-years-boys-guidance

As for in the 90s I’ve no idea - obviously the internet was not widely used so I guess there would have been letters sent with important guidance. NICE didn’t exist then. We were, I’m sure, just taught it in our pharmacology (or possibly therapeutics) lectures at medical school, so there was obviously some awareness in the profession even if not as stringently enforced with the more formalised Pregnancy Prevention Programme that is now in place.

The MHRA appears to have been set up in 2003
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicines_and_Healthcare_products_Regulatory_Agency

Thank you that’s really interesting

OP posts:
Musicaltheatremum · 09/11/2026 22:09

Prestissimo · 09/11/2026 20:23

Nowadays we get emails through from the MHRA when regulations are changed around medications, or if new warnings are issued. I don’t know the full history of when that was set up but this seems to give a potted history of the changes to prescribing of valproate:

https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/valproate-use-women-girls-childbearing-years-boys-guidance

As for in the 90s I’ve no idea - obviously the internet was not widely used so I guess there would have been letters sent with important guidance. NICE didn’t exist then. We were, I’m sure, just taught it in our pharmacology (or possibly therapeutics) lectures at medical school, so there was obviously some awareness in the profession even if not as stringently enforced with the more formalised Pregnancy Prevention Programme that is now in place.

The MHRA appears to have been set up in 2003
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicines_and_Healthcare_products_Regulatory_Agency

I think also computer systems are set up to warn us when prescribing. As long as you don't get warning fatigue! The valproate one on our system was hard to ignore or override. (Sometimes it was appropriate to override.

Girliefriendlikespuppies · 09/11/2026 22:26

I watched this, the bit that shocked me was that the Government pulled the legal aid as they realised that when it went to court it would come out the Government was more libel than the drug company!

YellingAway · 09/11/2026 22:51

I watched this and couldn’t believe that after the Thalidomide scandal, the warnings about this drug were simply ignored and not passed on to women of child bearing age.

Further, it two normal mums to keep digging to uncover all of the facts, including that the government had been warned about this in 1973 yet warnings were not added to the boxes until the 1990’s.

20,000 children were impacted by this, some will never be able to live independent lives and yet the families are still waiting for compensation, completely scandalous.