To feel like it’s sometimes better to stay in a relationship that’s a bit crap

I disagree, an intimate relationship is key to a happy marriage.
Sharing life experiences and travelling. I am encouraging op to do that instead of spending time with her dh. Ofc most people have a wider life beyond the marriage, and that’s healthy but not one that eclipses the marriage as I am suggesting.

In your situation I stayed because I was too exhausted to think of being able to manage on my own (he did no life admin or child admin at all) and I couldn’t face the upheaval and having to endlessly negotiate over children and money. No way would he have left the house -I had no friends/demanding job no family help available. I would have been a husk and be would have lived the high life, so would have been a stark contrast and I know I would have regretted it. I had no illusions about meeting a unicorn man and even if I did would not have wanted the kids to have a stepfather -or want the hassle of step kids myself. I intended to leave when kids were through uni, and was waiting for no/fault divorce. Then Covid struck so was stuck there two years longer than I intended. I did then leave and have been much happier but the divorce (finances) have been awful -he is incredibly bitter and cruel and I am thankful that I didn’t have to go through this financial hassle (about to go to court for the third time) and expense (80k so far, and will be double that before we are through) while the children were younger.
On balance am glad it worked out like this -I have a much happier life/very sporty/social /good friends. And the men I meet now also have older kids. I did meet a unicorn man -was with him for 2years -didn’t work out but was fun while it lasted-but could not have had that time with him if I’d still had school age children.

Every aspect of life is overall easier with a partner.

I so disagree with this. A digression maybe but I am astonished that anyone could actually prefer being in a bad partnership to being alone.

I am genuinely quite surprised to learn how many people think that this is preferable to solo parenting.

Yes, tbf I think ideally that's what ANY marriage, good or bad, should look like (although I know that's a tall order in today's economic climate and stressed out society). You need sources of fun, social support and meaning apart from your DH. Even if he's the perfect husband, what if he passes away suddenly?

I do appreciate that.

If I was deciding to stay in a shit marriage I would make damn sure I had a good time. Fun girls holidays, weekends away, a week full of hobbies and interests and I wouldn’t be having any kind of intimacy. If he really can’t be the dh you need him to be then plan a whole life that will not rely on his presence. Friendships, networks and fun. That’s the best way to protect yourself from poor mental health and a spiral of depression and misery.

Be proactive.

Personally I'd stay....I don't think marriage is supposed to be perfect. Would you be OK seeing your kids once or twice a week or with them living with your husband full time? I'd I'd answer is no then maybe think about how it would make him feel. You'll also have to alternate christmas and birthdays and big occasions.
I know I'd never want to meet anyone else because I'd never trust someone with my children. Seen to many horror stories to even risk it.

Realistically though, if you've got a shitty dead-end career, are stressed to death by solo parenting, live in a small cramped hovel, etc, are you going to be in a place to meet Mr Unicorn or practise self-love?

Whereas in a not so great but amicable marriage, you might have a fulfilling and high-achieving career you're proud of, time for leisure and self-care, time to bond properly with your kids, etc. Sure, you're alone, but if you left your husband you'd still be alone anyway!

Obviously talking about marriages that are just a bit crap but still amicable. Not marriages where a partner is nasty or abusive.

Life is hard as a single parent. I have a good salary but it’s the only salary in the household so yeah it’s not easy. But we are far from living in poverty. My ex and I have been split 12yrs and I think we have done a great job raising our kids who are 19 and 16. Even when split we were generally a United front on parenting. We have never slagged off the other parent to each other and have (don’t anymore) had many holidays post split. It doesn’t need to be all negativity and kids taking sides. Yes my kids can see I’ve done most of the raising of them, their dad will say that too, that I did the hard work whilst he worked away a lot. But it’s not a competitive. I couldn’t have stayed with him, because I was raised in a house with parents who argued a lot and I didn’t want that for my kids. We live in a very harmonious household, no arguments, no men sulking.

Men are like extra kids, and you don’t mind doing stuff for your kids, but God it used to wind me up having to do it for a man who is too lazy to do it themselves. I never regret leaving, it was the right thing. Your choice though, I think your mind is set on staying; and that’s fine. But don’t forget you get one life, no rewinding and starting again

I think about this as I left when my dc were very young. Being alone is a very hard life for everyone and the dc do suffer a lot from effectively their relationship with their df breaking down in their teens. They're well into adulthood now but would have been happier with an intact family.

The reality is that average people are unlikely to be super high earners and fewer still will be women.

If i could turn the clock back i would have adjusted my expectations to 'is this tolerable' and divorced him emotionally and viewed him as a roommate.

My parents' marriage was meh as i was growing up and then after we all left they became far far happier and were great friends with a lot of affection for each other. I could see that it was a great comfort to them when they were elderly.

I also have to look to myself, I don't enjoy romantic relationships at all. Romance sure, the drudgery and monotony? No. So I should have maximised my personal life whilst staying married and viewing it as a practical arrangement.

Op you should consider other issues to remaining in a less than adequate marriage, and those might be

• poor mental health including depression
• health problems created by stress
• lost opportunities of being in a fulfilling relationship
• long term regret that you sacrificed your own needs and self
• long term resentment
• apathy

I would like to support you to ‘stick it out’ but you have to look at the costs, to you as a human being.

You've only got one life. Why spend it with someone you have no passion or respect for and who appears to be a useless lump of lard?

I’m sorry you’ve had a tough night OP.

I agree that there’s no “right” decision in lots of relationships with children if you’re not happy, but the other person isn’t being abusive or controlling. So many women on MN post about men who are actively awful to them and speak to them abusively, but this doesn’t sound like your case from what I’ve read.

I know you’ve said that talking to your husband isn’t an option. It might not got the results you would want, but while you can’t make him talk to you, you can talk to him. Explain calmly how some of his actions impact you, how that makes you feel and what you need from him. He may not give you what you need, but he will know. It’s awful when we suffer in silence and the other party can play the “how was I supposed to know” card. It turns us into martyrs and I don’t know any martyrs who enjoy their life much! I’ve been there in the past and his blithe unawareness was the worst…

If staying in the marriage is the right choice for you and your children, do look for how you can enjoy your life as much as possible and don’t write off communicating your needs to him as a lost cause.

Sometimes it is better the devil you know. If the kids don’t see arguments and everyone is generally getting along then I’d stay. Life can be tough on your own with kids. You both might meet someone else with kids. Then there is all the step parenting fiasco to contend with, bringing more disruption to the kids lives. I’m not saying that’s wrong but I just don’t see how either situation is better.

This is really interesting and helpful! I'd say cultural context factors in heavily though... Eg in the US I'd genuinely say it's worth it to just cohabit for health insurance (having the peace of mind that you can go to the dr for a tiny injury, big illness, etc) but in the UK that's not a factor

I don't really have an opinion (to me it comes down to probability/a gamble) but your post is how 99% of people think in the real world, just fyi.

This "LTB for the slightest transgression" is a MN thing. The thing about the Internet is you see contrarian views presented as mainstream views.

I'd say it's 100% good to leave your underperforming DH if it's truly in line with your values (independence, etc), but don't do it just because you think everyone else is... No one else is, and the people giving you this advice won't help you with your single parenting bills etc... They may well be sticking it out in a financially comfortable marriage themselves, and be way happier than you once the kids are teens in just a few years.

Actually it's not just the Internet but the problem with idealistic advice in general. "Look at what people do, not what people say" became one of my life mantras many years ago, as someone who used to wide-eyedly obey idealistic advice to my own eventual detriment.

There is a book on this, based on research.

Too good to leave too bad to stay.

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/TooGooddtoLeaveeTooBaddtoStay.html?id=-cqNEAAAQBAJ&source=kpp_bookdescription&redirresc=y

It's based on a series of questions and tells you that (for example) in X situation 75% of people were glad that they went.

I'm very sorry that you have lost your mum .

Honestly, the more you post, the more unhappy your marriage sounds. You say your dh is a good dad, but then also describe how he actually does very little parenting. I honestly do think kids go through different stages of favouring one parent or another and it doesn't mean all that much. Your dc sound very young still and they will not remain how they are now forever.

The poverty thing is real for many split families but it is not inevitable and depends on individual circumstances. If you can work and your ex contributes and housing doesn't cost too much, you could be fine. I was always a higher earner than my ex so I'm fine but I also have friends who have split up who don't earn as much as me but get decent contributions from their exes so are fine - not loaded but definitely not in poverty either. Poverty and single-parent families are associated with each other for all sorts of reasons and often the poverty exists before the split, but it absolutely doesn't follow that everyone who splits up falls into poverty. It just doesn't.

As for after school clubs and all that stuff, that should be shared in the event of a split, and if you're not involved in playground politics, that is in many ways a good thing and certainly not something your child will suffer from long term, far from it ime.

I'm certainly not trying to persuade you to ltb, but I do feel you are catastrophising about the impact of a potential split and ignoring the fact that many many people do this and have no regrets, likewise their children. It also seems to me you may be exaggerating how great of a dad your dh is and assuming that this phase of daddy-worship your dc may be going through currently will last and be almost solidified if you split. In reality, he may step up more if he had to have the dc on his own after a split, and, if not, they are more likely to see what each parent actually does for them when they're apart.

I couldn't agree more. It is so nuanced.

I grew up knowing my parents were in a very unhappy marriage. They are in their early 70s and are still together (married 44 years in August). Years ago this was because of us kids, but then it was due to the financial implications of divorcing.

Whilst I was a kid, teen and during my 20s, there were a number of heated arguments but in the last 10 years or so they’ve basically settled into a weird rhythm of coexisting and have developed either a higher tolerance for being around each other or have reached a stage of just caring less generally about the things that used to cause tensions.

As someone raised in that environment it wasn’t nice but the benefit was that seeing such an unhappy and unhealthy example of a marriage role modelled so openly, I was determined that I wouldn’t ever compromise on my relationships. I was only going to marry the man I truly believed to be my life partner and the person I could picture growing old and experiencing all of life’s milestones and challenges with. And I would never stay in a relationship I wasn’t happy in, as that level of misery really does grind down your soul over time.

But were your parents together? Because if so, I don't think you can compare it to parents who have split. In a marital home it's obviously far harder and actually irrelevant for kids to try to unpick who is doing what and which parent is responsible for their overall happiness and experiences. But once apart, the differences become far more stark.

My kids can see that their dad is a lot more lax with them than I am, but they also see that his house is a 'bit of a shithole' (their words) and that he doesn't work half as hard as I do. They wouldn't see that if we were together and would probably just see him as the more laid back parent. Obviously each case is different, but kids do see through Disney dads in very many cases, but probably most likely when the mum has stepped back to expose the shortcomings, and not when she is picking up the slack like some kind of fairy godmother.

It's ultimately up to you and your husband - as long as you b both opt to stay in the relationship, no one can really say that's unreasonable. I can think of things that would be absolute deal-breakers to some of my friends but I just really don't care about them - and vice versa.

If you do split up, though, for God's sake don't settle for him Disney Dadding once a week!!!! He has 50% of the responsibility for the children, and that includes all the hard parts. Agree on that up front.

I've read every single post as this has been a fascinating thread.
I did leave but am a high earner so not as impacted financially and work remotely with flexibility to allow me to do school drop off and pick ups. Young DC too and I absolutely stayed longer than I should have as I was concerned about their happiness. They are doing well. I've aimed to keep an amicable relationship and live 10 mins away from ExH so easy to see them even when not my days.

I understand staying in meh as I seriously considered it as well. However, 17 years ago I survived a near death experience and vowed to try and live life to the fullest where I can so this has influenced my choices including choice of work which enabled me to leave.
I have peace of mind and feel happier within myself. I am able to be a better happier parent and I see the benefits of this for my DC.