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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this is unprofessional?

59 replies

PigeonEgg · 04/04/2024 07:48

Recently taken on a new contract, I'm a freelancer. It's a small one, only a few hours a week.

I sent my latest invoice to the client/boss and he replied "Invoice received, I'll pay it ASAP, I'm waiting on a few other payments to come in."

This has shaken my trust in the client, it's unprofessional, why not just say 'Thanks I'll get that paid ASAP."

In case it's relevant, the amount is less than £300.

If he doesn't have an easily accessible pot for payments for such low amounts, it makes me feel uneasy.

OP posts:
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Dearg · 06/04/2024 17:12

ThankFitsFriday · 05/04/2024 20:48

I agree that his response is weird.

As a side note, I work in Finance, in a company where cashflow is no issue, but we’d struggle to meet your 5 working days payment terms.

By the time the invoice is received, approved, processed, then the payment run prepared, authorised, uploaded to the bank, released from the bank, 3 working days to clear.. I think 5 days payment terms is very tight and I’ve rejected new suppliers with short payment terms such as this, just because it’s not practical for our processes and we’d always be missing the payment deadline.

I agree with ThankFitsFriday, in as much as it is /was up to the customer to tell op, upfront, that he would not be able to meet terms.
I don’t find short payment terms unusual, but the important part is reaching agreement before work starts/ service is delivered.

ThankFitsFriday · 05/04/2024 20:48

PigeonEgg · 04/04/2024 07:54

My payment policy is to be paid within 5 working days, which he knows and agreed to.

I'm sure he will pay within the 5 working days but it's the whole 'you get paid when I get paid' vibe that gives a red flag.

I'd never say something like that.

I agree that his response is weird.

As a side note, I work in Finance, in a company where cashflow is no issue, but we’d struggle to meet your 5 working days payment terms.

By the time the invoice is received, approved, processed, then the payment run prepared, authorised, uploaded to the bank, released from the bank, 3 working days to clear.. I think 5 days payment terms is very tight and I’ve rejected new suppliers with short payment terms such as this, just because it’s not practical for our processes and we’d always be missing the payment deadline.

TiptoeTess · 05/04/2024 20:46

What on earth is your field?
I freelanced for years and it was 30 days as standard.

PigeonEgg · 05/04/2024 20:41

Katrinawaves · 05/04/2024 09:03

Totally depends on the industry and how mature the company is. You have quite a black and white way of looking at things.

A youngish company in a growth phase will have very finely balanced cash flow but it doesn’t mean they can’t or won’t pay their bills when they fall due or within a reasonable period.

You could equally argue that a successful freelancer would not be desperate for payment within 5 days so be aware that you are sending your customer a message about yourself just as much as he’s sending you one about his business.

Edited

Those are the terms; completely normal in my field. In fact 5 working days is generous.

OP posts:
PigeonEgg · 05/04/2024 20:38

Herbiebanannas · 05/04/2024 09:20

Personally I wouldn’t say that chasing someone for payment of of three figure invoice after 5 days was a very good impression to give either.

i would never chase anyone until someone was at least a month over normal terms, it gives the same impression that you are saying the client shouldn’t be giving. Lack of cash.

You're reading things that aren't there, I haven't chased.

OP posts:
Marblessolveeverything · 05/04/2024 12:28

I would wait and see if he pays within your set terms. And perhaps consider moving to 50% or all upfront.

pikkumyy77 · 05/04/2024 12:22

I don’t understand why it isn’t cash on delivery? I mean I see that it isn’t but most sales are at point of purchase. The theater and the grocery store don’t invoice you and wait 28 days.

Herbiebanannas · 05/04/2024 09:20

PigeonEgg · 05/04/2024 07:56

Yes, an unsteady cash flow is not a good impression to give, is it!

Personally I wouldn’t say that chasing someone for payment of of three figure invoice after 5 days was a very good impression to give either.

i would never chase anyone until someone was at least a month over normal terms, it gives the same impression that you are saying the client shouldn’t be giving. Lack of cash.

Katrinawaves · 05/04/2024 09:03

PigeonEgg · 05/04/2024 07:56

Yes, an unsteady cash flow is not a good impression to give, is it!

Totally depends on the industry and how mature the company is. You have quite a black and white way of looking at things.

A youngish company in a growth phase will have very finely balanced cash flow but it doesn’t mean they can’t or won’t pay their bills when they fall due or within a reasonable period.

You could equally argue that a successful freelancer would not be desperate for payment within 5 days so be aware that you are sending your customer a message about yourself just as much as he’s sending you one about his business.

PigeonEgg · 05/04/2024 07:56

Didimum · 04/04/2024 22:43

It sounds like his cash flow is unsteady – always a bit of a worry.

As an aside, as someone who regularly works with freelancers, they always have a ‘paid within 5/10/15 days’ stipulation, but our company policy is paid within 28 days. So 🤷‍♀️

Yes, an unsteady cash flow is not a good impression to give, is it!

OP posts:
thatsnotmynamethstsnotmyname · 05/04/2024 07:08

daffodilandtulip · 04/04/2024 07:53

I'm a childminder and this drives me mad every month OP. I've never had a month where I haven't had to constantly chase at least one person.

That was the worst part of childminder! Even when they got child tax credits which is specifically for the child care!!

Finlesswonder · 05/04/2024 04:21

PigeonEgg · 04/04/2024 21:21

This is it, I'd be mortified to make it obvious cash was low. I can only think that he lacks awareness of what he's implying?!

I don't understand why you care so much?! Why would he be "mortified"? Times are tough right now, maybe cash flow isn't as smooth as it once was for many, why is that so humiliating to admit?
You are "just" a freelancer, why should he be embarrassed for you to know this? Many of my clients have evolved into friends over the years and I know about their lives, I know when times are tough. Actually it makes me more confident that I will be paid, not less. A non payer would just play dead.

Finlesswonder · 05/04/2024 04:14

I think you're totally unrealistic. How long have you been self employed? I've been freelance for well over a decade, and 30 days (not even from delivery, but from invoice) is standard in my industry and has been since forever.
I have a really good client who's also a very good friend (and pays excellent rates) and often he will be waiting in a chain for several big payments to come through so he can pay his freelancers for a job, it happens.
Normally I barely notice when someone pays me as my cash flow is steady.
Your client could flip it around and say what kind of successful freelancer has such poor cash flow they're chomping at the bit for a three figure invoice just days after delivering.

Imagine if your client has a dozen or so freelancers on various projects: do you expect them to take an hour out here and there on a mish mash of days to process invoices or make payments? No, of course they're going to wait and deal with them all at the end/beginning of month, it just makes logistical.sense. Even for yourself: better to gather all your invoices at end of month and get in the zone.

Herbiebanannas · 05/04/2024 04:07

Five days is bizarre, we wouldn’t engage with anyone looking for payment that quickly. The admin is a pita.

i would also read the email as meaning it will be paid next time he is doing some financial admin, ie when he has a number of invoices to pay or incoming payments to reconcile.

no half decent sized business is going to deal with a single invoice.

Mrttyl · 05/04/2024 03:55

He might be annoyed at the 5 days and it is his way of pointing out that it is rather shorter time than normal. As someone who has to pay a lot of invoices, 5 days is really short and would irritate me.

PropertyManager · 04/04/2024 23:34

Interestingly, under the 2017 act, even if reduced terms are agreed, you have no actual recourse to chase the debt or add interest until the 30 days have elapsed - so in reality the customer can take 30 days regardless.

PropertyManager · 04/04/2024 23:29

OK, just looked it up, Payment Terms Act 2017, 30 days is the default limit unless parties have agreed different terms.

The emphasis is on agreement, it can't be one way, so you could have on your quotation "payment to be within 5 days of delivery date" and then "acceptance of this quotation means you agree to the terms set forth herein"

Just sticking 5 days, 7 days, 10 days on the invoice means nothing unless you have some sort of agreement from the payee

PropertyManager · 04/04/2024 23:24

PigeonEgg · 04/04/2024 10:10

Not in my experience.

As far as I'm aware anything under 28 days is unenforcible in law, I supply the NHS, it doesn't matter what you put on the invoice, it gets paid roughly a month later.

Nogoodusername · 04/04/2024 22:57

As a freelancer, my payment terms are within 28 days. However, companies always have their own - some have payment runs every Friday so mine will be the Friday after the 28 days is up, one is always the last working day of the month so annoyingly can be nearly 4 weeks later sometimes.

not the point, but it was interesting for me to read how it varied company to company!

i agree - I wouldn’t give the impression of cash flow difficulties to a freelancer!

Datgal · 04/04/2024 22:47

I read it like, he'll wait for more to come in and then pay all invoices together sort of thing. I didn't even know what you meant at first and had to re-read it! It could be meant either way I suppose!

Didimum · 04/04/2024 22:43

It sounds like his cash flow is unsteady – always a bit of a worry.

As an aside, as someone who regularly works with freelancers, they always have a ‘paid within 5/10/15 days’ stipulation, but our company policy is paid within 28 days. So 🤷‍♀️

Rudolftheorange · 04/04/2024 22:41

Usually freelancers give 28 days and then interest is payable. As employees people are paid a month in arrears, so less than 28 days is a bit odd.

thing47 · 04/04/2024 22:38

If it makes you feel uneasy and you think it's unprofessional, then don't work for him again. There are a few companies/individuals in my field who pay late or quibble over hours worked or how much extra I did/didn't have to do, I just don't work for them. It's one of the advantages of being freelance, right?

You're not actually asking us whether you think you are being unreasonable, you've already decided you're not, so go with that.

PigeonEgg · 04/04/2024 21:33

RazzberryGem · 04/04/2024 21:24

I actually think this is quite normal.
I know in my dads business, he sometimes has to chase people for payments so he can pay the suppliers etc. It's not that the business doesn't have or make money. It's been going well for over 20 years. Just, certain things are budgeted to cover other things.

It might be a red flag but it might be genuine!

Edited

That's the point - I'm taking it as genuine, and that's a concern.

If your dad knew he had a heavy month of bills coming out then I'm sure he'd be professional and think twice about hiring extra staff and making the month's cashflow even tighter.

You shouldn't hire someone if you haven't got the cashflow to pay them, whatever the timeframe.

It's irresponsible.

OP posts:
RazzberryGem · 04/04/2024 21:24

I actually think this is quite normal.
I know in my dads business, he sometimes has to chase people for payments so he can pay the suppliers etc. It's not that the business doesn't have or make money. It's been going well for over 20 years. Just, certain things are budgeted to cover other things.

It might be a red flag but it might be genuine!