To think some nurseries are pleading poverty unfairly?

Some of the larger chain nurseries, yes they may be able to absorb the shortfall and still turn a profit. You get what you pay for though trust me.
Smaller Private provisions are struggling to make ends meet and believe me, without the consumables fee, they will close.

I had this issue. It was all about the money and id have to top up the gov funding etc to help keep them going. I declined. Went with a childminder instead. Much more straight forward in terms of payment

Also, Labour did introduce certain initiatives, including PFI in the public sector, but it's the Conservatives who misused it and stretched it over during their time in power because they do indeed LOVE private ownership and will achieve this at the expense of ridding public sector with private equity debts and then gradually starving it of public money, but not before private equity 'investors' pockets can be filled. Don't be daft.

A very quick google finds for 2 year olds give rate £7.95 is less than a local nursery £8.80 per hour and for 3 and 4 year olds £5.92 is well under the £8.47 nursery fees are.

Ours recently increased their fees when the free hours for 2 year olds came in this month so parents are paying the exact same amount they were before and in some cases even more as they also have to pay the "top up" on funded days.

Why did you quote me to say this? I didn't say anything related to what you posted?

Labour introduced academies.

And if you’ve ever been inside a Busy Bees , you would have been shocked they can profit that much

Agree mostly, however no, you wouldn't end up with poor quality and broken toys if settings were operating on a not-for-profit basis, whereby surplus funds are reinvested in the business. There should be a maximum 50% contribution from parents and at least 50% full funding from the govt, in my opinion. The entire sector needs an overhaul. It's an essential service propping the entire economy and women's participation in the job market, it's there to be accessible to working parents, not prohibitively expensive and run largely by profiteers.

I couldn't agree more.

I mean, these are private firms, is it really so odd they are making large profits.

I do think it's complicated, because I equally do think many small independent nurseries are struggling and their costs are/have genuinely gone up a lot in the last couple of years.

But we live in a society where private companies make profit and I don't understand why that's shocking to people?

What a suprise, owned by a SuperCo, and finding structure is that of a private equity owned company. Strip the company, pay staff the least possible and make millions on a quick exit in 5 years.

I work for a Bank and one of our customers was a very large chain of private nurseries partly owned by private equity. They made a huge profit. I

The same goes for care home owners, GP Partners, even fostering agencies and more.

For example older GP partners who own the building had it paid for by national rent from the NHS. So at retirement are selling their share of the practice and property and doing well at exit. It's a business basically.

Councils outsource fostering because they just can't do it and have to pay the private companies twice what they get from government. Example foster parents get £400 and the private company charges the council up to £900!

Care home owners who manage to run a good operating model, the homes are cash cows for them. This is what I see from their accounts and what they tell me.

I have done this role for nearly 20 years and just wish there was a greater awareness of how many private companies are running services for the public and make a fortune out of it.

Not all, but there are many who do.

Many school nurseries have been asking for a daily or weekly 'resources contribution' for several years now.

@Crikeyalmighty

You pay nursery after parents' income in Denmark so it's pretty important. 0-3 yo (vuggestue) is more expensive than 3-6 yo (børnehave). You also pay a fee for food if provided for 3-6 yo.
However yes, you won't pay more than £400 a month and most parents pay way less.

We paid less in Denmark than UK and only did part time nursery in UK. It was too expensive compared to my income.

SAHM is often a better solution moneywise than to work in UK. I did some evening/night shifts and husband took care of children.

Busy bees 2023 accounts - link to companies house so in the public domain. Just scroll down a bit.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03454787/filing-history

In my opinion (and an educated one due to experience in both finances and this area of government), most nurseries are poorly financially managed. The vast majority of managers (group managers of the chains and individual managers) have little business or financial acumen for affective budgeting. They are very competent childcare professionals and very nice people who have risen up the ranks by being good at their jobs – but these places really need the equivalent of a finance director or CFO for effective financial management and forward planning.

The smaller local settings are struggling to make their business sustainable.

The chains, of different sizes, who are backed by private equity are doing well enough to line the pockets of those at the top. The long term security of the childcare places is yet to be seen.

www.theguardian.com/money/2023/aug/04/childcare-sector-england-not-playground-private-equity-experts-say

Since the new funding has been planned for September, our school nurseries only offer 15 hours per child - to be used 3 hours per day, morning or afternoon sessions. That's zero use for working parents.

Early Years settings are private businesses, they are allowed to make a profit and shouldn't feel guilty for doing so. If they are not making a profit and skimping on everything, you'll get crap food, broken toys, poor education, no outings.

The words top up fees have never been allowed, but the voluntary contribution that was, the government have said it no longer has to be voluntary. So they must be aware that the funding does not cover costs. They just want the votes so do it in a way that makes you think badly of the provider and not the government.

In our area these are only for a pre school year and places are insufficient for demand. And that’s before the 9-3 in school term times issue. Or people would just use them.

Err, are you aware of normal working hours? Most parents have to work. Nurseries attached to primary schools are great cause they are free, but wholly unsuitable for those poor souls that have to earn a living.

Haven’t read through the whole thread but most nurseries if not all have to use agency staff. They are needed everyday in a lot of places which is very expensive and takes up a large part of the budget.