Another lunch ruined by other peoples’ children

Thank you. I did do a pretty good job if I say so myself. We'd see less 'unruly' children if their parents actually bothered their backsides to curb their bad behaviour.

Any child can act up, and that's fine, so long as the parent at least attempts to distract or whatever. It's the ones that don't, or made a half-hearted "ah don't do that son" while son carries right on, that get on my wick.

Not really. I didn’t put them in situations that would stress them and cause them to act distressed. They also disliked the noise of other people’s screaming kids.

When abroad, you never see kids mucking about in restaurants etc as eating is a social thing, unlike here its grab n go. Hardly any grab n go type places such as Greggs etc abroad.

If you do witness bad behaviour in these places, hear the English - afraid its the Brits.

Your poor child.

Did it appear I was targeting parents like you for censure? I hope not. But if it did, I'm sorry.

If you were in a particularly nice place you are not being unreasonable. If you were in a normal cafe etc YABU. Children are people too. Agree totally about it being important to teach manners but it isn't as easy as people suggest, it does depend on the child as well as the parenting. A family member has two kids, one 5 and one 6yo. The 6yo has flawless manners and will sit quietly at the dinner table, always has since around 2. We thought it was his parents' iron fist. The 5yo however absolutely will not sit, will mess about, will scream etc and has always been like thar. They've parented in the same way, been strict, enforced boundaries etc. But 1st child is a quiet, easy child and 2nd is full of energy and can't be contained. I don't think it's fair to blame the parents for that if you're just in a normal cafe and doing everything possible to manage them.

"What seemed to me like effort, taking advice, long hours spent, sleepless nights, long discussions with partner, thoughtful boundary-drawing, psychological investigation, discussion with barely-verbal children, unstinting praise of effort in the face of failure, ... and all the rest ... was very likely as nothing compared with your unstinting efforts to get your graceless and ungrateful children to behave themselves."

Yes I still have to work very hard caring for my 17 year old and no doubt there are still some people out there who think I could 'cure' his repetitive sounds if I was a better parent.

Turned down really low whilst waiting for the food is very peaceful
Very often, sound that is turned down but loud enough for the child to hear to their satisfaction is loud enough for others to be disturbed especially with adrenaline rushing things like Disney films.

I don't understand why kids can't just used cheap earphones for these circumstances.

I used to feel just like you, getting really angry at feeling my enjoyment was ruined by selfish parents who are too lazy to discipline their kids and teach them manners in the public environment.

I don't anymore. I've accepted that newer parents' principles have changed. They raise their kids differently. Their normality is not what it used to be for us as parents.

So I always make a point to go where young children are unlikely to be. I don't go on holidays during school breaks. I only booked Airbnb abroad in non tourist areas. I go out for dinner in more 'posh' places, much less often.

The only place I struggle with is the private gym changing areas especially showers. I crave quietness after a hard work out under a rewarding hot shower. parents forcing their kids to shower there because it's easier than at home with their kids screaming and scratching because they don't want to shower there does test all my buttons so again, I now only shower there at times kids are very unlikely to be there.

Ultimately adopting the popular thought of 'if you don't like it, go somewhere else'. At least I'm relaxed doing so.

I wouldn't go to a cafe full of little kids.
There are plenty of more adult places to spend your weekend.
The one that bugs me is loads of little kids in pubs. For me a pub is primarily an adult space for consuming alcohol. When I was a kid we would have to sit silently with a coke if dragged in on a walk with my dad. The kids now in pubs act like they are practically getting drunk by osmosis! Haha.

That's why I love having a weekday off.

YANBU- children of those ages should be able to behave appropriately in a cafe/restaurant.

My son is 10 now and has been able to behave appropriately in these situations for years.
We stayed in a hotel in Austria last summer when he was 9. We ate in the (very nice) hotel restaurant each evening with absolute no issues, as did every other family, even those with younger children.

A lot of the time, it is just that the parents don't want to be bothered.

My friend has three young children. They walk the legs off them, beach, park, woods. They're happy to sit down for a drink and something to eat.

I'm going to upset mumsnetters now but as a grandma netflix, Disney on my phone have helped a lot. Turned down really low whilst waiting for the food is very peaceful.

Then you need to go out more often not less. Even a cuppa and a squash , piece of cake.

Twenty minutes and leave if necessary.

This isn't what the thread says at all.

Do you feel better for your out of context speech?

You're probably right. You and @thecatwiththesilveryfur both.

What seemed to me like effort, taking advice, long hours spent, sleepless nights, long discussions with partner, thoughtful boundary-drawing, psychological investigation, discussion with barely-verbal children, unstinting praise of effort in the face of failure, ... and all the rest ... was very likely as nothing compared with your unstinting efforts to get your graceless and ungrateful children to behave themselves.

It's probably the case my children's, and their children's, ability to behave sensibly in company when small was just pure happenstance.

The old nature/nurture debate continues. Of course it does.

But, then, I look around (and have done for a while; I'm pretty old now) and see how parents behave with and to their children, and check out the behaviour of their children. And, guess what? -- Bad behaviour of children correlates strongly with lazy good-for-nothing parents who don't spend time and effort teaching their children how to behave. So, yes, I'm judgemental and ungenerous etc. about this.

I know what works. I've seen with my own eyes. No, not bashing or assaulting children or anything like that. Love, care, thoughtful concern. Praise of effort, talk, boundaries set and maintained, careful monitoring of developing independence ... Hours, weeks, years of effort. Worth it in the end, of course - much more so than the slack Harriets who leave their children be seem to realise.

Many of you reading this realise its truth, of course. Many of you are better parents than I could hope to be. But some of you are worse. (Some of you, even, are bad parents from good motives -- you get stuff wrong.) And, well, you latter, your children suffer from that, and - to a lesser extent - so do those who encounter your little snot-nosed monsters in cafés and restaurants. Shame on you.

I really don't think being taught to sit and speak at a reasonable volume as a child causes depression😂
Neglect including neglecting to interact with your " kids" and plonking them in front of a screen is far more damaging when they grow into entitled adults and wonder why they struggle with life.
Children cry,its up to their parents to remove swiftly, give them space and go back once they are settled.
This is good parenting,they express their feelings without an audience.
They learn respect for themselves and others which is a crucial part of success later in life.

Sounds tough @hangingonfordearlife1 you'll get there, 2 is a tricky age. Just remember it won't be forever

"No it's not easy bringing children up properly. It can be tricky; sometimes difficult. Needs effort."

I doubt you know what difficult and tricky is as regards to parenting.

I have four children and they were all good when out in public in restaurants etc. We didn't have gadgets to amuse them either back when mine were little. It's about including them. Talk about the menu, talk to them like you do other adults when out. Make it sociable so they don't feel the need to be noisy and run about.

These days so many parents are hooked to their phones and children are constantly distracted by phones and movies/TV that fewer parents just sit and talk to their children in places like this.

The typical black and white thinking on here. Children are either running riot, out of control, or sitting deathly still and not bothering anyone. I mean come on, what are we teaching children here? There is a world of difference between children who have not been taught appropriate boundaries and children showing age appropriate developmental behaviours, like crying. We have got this down to a fine art in this country, teaching kids emotional repression, that it's their responsibility to adjust and make others feel better. Threads on here are full of people who have been trained in this way and you can see the problems it causes. The guilt, the stress, when they try to look after what THEY need. The endless analysis on here of why women stay with shit husbands or vice versa. Maybe they can't feel the feelings they need to feel to help themselves. Children cry. Get over it. No wonder this country is so fucked up, rampant mental health issues, anxiety and depression and a dearth of emotional intellegence everywhere.

At our lunch out yesterday, it was adults watching YouTube videos snd facetiming loudly at the next table that annoyed me. Sometimes it's adults, sometimes it's kids, sometimes it's dogs, it's ridiculous to blame only kids.

i have a 2 year old, went out last night and he screamed and shouted so much out of excitement that we left. it was so embarrassing, don't go out very often because of this- think i am becoming a hermit because of his behaviour

Teaching your little children to behave appropriately takes time and requires effort and consistency on behalf of the parents. So many parents just cannot be bothered to put the effort in, their child acting up doesn't bother them and they don't give a shit if it bothers others. Unfortunately the tide is turning in favour of these idle parents and badly behaved children outnumber the well behaved ones. Once upon a time parents would have rightly been embarrassed if their child was annoying others, but now they just selfishly shrug it off.

If you really cared about your child surely you would want other people to like them and behave positively towards them. Why would you allow them to create annoyance, irritation and resentment in others?