to think many politicians who claim to be Christians and who say this is a Christian country really aren't Christians and would criticise the teachings of Jesus

So a picture cannot be as powerful as words? Tell that to Banksy and what about the teacher that drew a picture of the prophet? Was that picture not as powerful as words to the Muslim community?

This wasn't in his private life. The picture is in his official home on the day he was officially sworn in.

Do you think majority of Muslim have the same take as him on same sex marriages(please research)? If not why not, cause it's not a tenant of Islam.

If people who have faith cannot be politicians and vote with their conscience who will represent their views? Why are there Christian/msuslim/hindu/jewish bodies within political parties who pull together to represent their religious views? Whether you like it or not, people have beliefs (some not even religious) and that will have a sway on how they approach issues.

Look if we want to have a multicultural, multi faithful country great. I am all for this. There is a huge opportunity for us to really have a fantastic diverse and interesting culture. However, we need to address these issues fairly and we need to deal with difficult issues so we can have some shared beliefs that all want to stand by.

Agree- they can practice how they choose in their private lives, as is their right in this country, but they must not bring that into politics. I do think use of the word 'conscience', by Ms Forbes, was worrying, as that does kind of suggest links to the strong religious 'conscience' her faith promotes.

Jeffrey Donaldson anyone?

But a picture of someone engaging in personal religious practice is very different from someone who talks about their specific beliefs as being something they stand for and want to represent.

I don’t actually care about what politicians do in their personal life (as long as it’s legal), or what - if any - religion they follow. I do care when politicians try to bring their private religious beliefs into deciding what other people are allowed to do.

The general thought is that Ms Forbes is more fervent in her religious stance than Mr Yousef, though clearly both have views. I have got to say that she can't have done a worse job generally than he is though, he is a terrible FM, religious views aside!

*She certainly talked about her personal religious beliefs more than Yousaf. I would distrust anyone in politics who talks about their religious beliefs to that extent, regardless of religion tbh.

I don’t know much about how the Scottish voting system works, or whether it’s a vote of conscience.*

I would trust them more. They are being transparent about what the stand for. Even if I disagree with them, they have the conviction to stand for what they believe and let people know. Is that not we want from people and more so from politician?

Was Hamza Yousaf making a religious statement when he issued a picture of him and his family praying in the official home?

Again, not saying he shouldn't I have actually nothing against religious expression. But why the double standards?

She certainly talked about her personal religious beliefs more than Yousaf. I would distrust anyone in politics who talks about their religious beliefs to that extent, regardless of religion tbh.

I don’t know much about how the Scottish voting system works, or whether it’s a vote of conscience.

Did Ms Forbes not say the same and aren't some of these subject to votes of conscience?

Yet a Muslim can become a leader even though Islam has same if not more conservative beliefs on say home sexuality. Was he asked his views like Ms Forbes was hounded for? If he was, did he lie?

He was asked, yes. He’s also been open about his support for same sex marriages and that personal faith views should not interfere with legislation.

Yes, I'm sure that there is a lot of nasty views on Muslims but not every different opinion is "Islam phobic".

A Catholic politician cannot become the leader of SNP because the media etc question whether her beliefs are acceptable.

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/16/kate-forbes-sturgeon-successor-religious-beliefs

Yet a Muslim can become a leader even though Islam has same if not more conservative beliefs on say home sexuality. Was he asked his views like Ms Forbes was hounded for? If he was, did he lie?

So keep religion out of politics, does it apply just to Christians? Are you really saying this is not double standards? Are you really saying that for the last 6 months, politicians who are Muslim have not bought this into play on the Palestinian issue(I'm not saying wrongly).

So why is it in a country that has been historically Christian and built on this, finds ms Forbes beliefs more objectable than those beliefs that are significantly less tolerable and different coming from those which are relatively new to these shores and who are in the minority?

I'm using Muslims as an example, the point I'm trying to make is why aren't these rules applied consistently across the board if we are a secular society?

Yep that’s the point of the thread isn’t it?

We don't have a state religion, hate to break that to you.

No. Because I don't mind having a state religion.

I don't think the Lee Anderson quote has anything to do with Christianity, it's just an opportunity to be Islamophobic and by extension dog-whistle racist.

We have come very far, very fast tbh. And there is probably a degree of whiplash that comes with that. And also, not everyone wants rapid change (in terms of schools for example). But in general terms, I'm early 40s and I remember the exacting control of the church, no divorce, no gay marriage, no abortion. The latter two only have been introduced in the last decade. They were however introduced through referendum, demonstrating that attitudes are actually changing throughout the country, and for most age groups and a mix of socio economic groups.

You said political leaders.

Last time I checked, Lee Anderson wasn’t a leader of anything and Nigel Farage will say anything if it gets him attention (and also IIRC isn’t the leader of any political party that actually has seats anywhere)

Oh yes, sorry my last wording sounded cheeky (quick reply) - I do get that things are moving on but my understanding is that there is still far to come? Apologies if I got that wrong. Central Scotland, where I grew up, also still has far to come with certain religious issues too.

I was always taught that we are all sinners in God's eyes and that we are saved not because we are good but because God is. So, they can still be Christians even if they've done some pretty awful things.

They do seem to be hypocrites though, I see what you mean. I don't think if I was a good Christian I would judge them though; I'd just pray for them. But I'm as imperfect as anyone else, so I do judge them a bit.

Basically, I don't think Christianity is a good benchmark for being a good and accepting person. It isn't about being good or perfect AFAIK.

Edited to fix paragraphs

I think there is a difference between being culturally Christian which this country is. And religiously Christian. The same way their are cultural Muslims and cultural Jewish people and I'm sure every other religion. They live their life broadly within the schema of that religion e.g. Celebrate holidays and festivals, broadly agree with some over arching principles but may also often perhaps do things that do ACTUALLY align with the teachings of that religion.

did Jesus say anything about eggs, Jesus wasn't born on Christmas Day...Yes, some traditions have pagan routes. Take a bow

They do like to say that, but easter eggs aren't pagan. They originate in medieval Christian churches as a popular way to break Lent, which turned into decorating them to give to others.

There are several Christian folk tales of the time period, most with Mary Magdalen either having a basket of eggs when she came to the burial chamber of Jesus and the white eggs changed colours as a sign of the miracle of resurrection or her preaching later, her being heckled to provide proof and an egg in her hand miraculously turning blood red.

Rabbits are also from Christian stories and are in medieval period were often painted with Mary because European brown hares can basically get pregnant while already pregnant and when it was observed that they can have a litter in too short a time for a full pregnancy, it was linked to virgin births. The two would later come together, with the rabbits as virgin birth which leads to the resurrection and message.

We only one classic reference of Ostara/Easter having anything to do with paganism, the Venerable Bede saying the month was named after a Germanic goddess. That's it. We've no reason to think he's lying, but no other sources to give us any idea how true it is, no idea how she might have been venerated beyond his reference, nothing. The idea that all the Easter things were connected to her and paganism is a Victorian idea with the popularity of the concept that everything in the Abrahamic faiths must come from some earlier 'true religion' source, a concepts that is perpetrated today, erasing the complex history or that much of Europe doesn't use a Germanic name for this festival, but one rooted in Hebrew as the early churches connected it to Pesach.

We have moved on quite a bit in the last 20 years thank you very much! But he's a clear example of a strange, young enough person with opinions that belong in 1800s. He's probably our equivalent of JRM actually!

That's an interesting narrowing of "politicians" in a thread quoting a politician complaining about how last time he checked it's still a Christian country, etc, who has also recently criticised the Archbishop of Canterbury for expressing a view on policy matters.

Look, I'd love a properly secular state. Get the bishops out of the Lords, ditch faith schools in the state sector, let's do it.

But that doesn't alter the fact that some politicians like to use Christianity when it suits them but then complain when it bites them in the arse, and that those politicians are hypocritical dicks.

Well, he is Irish and Ireland is traditionally stuck in the past in terms of religious power, compared to the UK at least.

There are still quite a few CofE affiliated schools and also in central Scotland there are many Catholic Primaries and Secondaries, however xtian religion is featuring less and less in traditional non-private schooling, thankfully. Unfortunately there are also quite a lot of people with extreme religious views, who home school or who set up faith schools, though.