Can school do this? - managed move

I think you are underestimating how disruptive she is being the situation is worse than you think

I have two ds who both have ASD and ADHD. DS2 was diagnosed by 5 but DS1 didn't get diagnosed until around the same age as OP's DD.

DS1 attended an academy with super strict rules and never did a day pass he wasn't getting told off or punished for low level infractions. Things like forgetting equipment, losing his stuff. Another common one was being late to lessons (he took long routes between classes so he could avoid corridor crushes he knew he couldn't cope with). He'd get detention, then forget the detention and get another for that. The effect on his self esteem and general happiness was huge. After diagnosis things didn't get much better even though SENCO always said the right thing. We did after that though refuse to support the school with detentions received which obviously relates to his neuro diversity. His secondary school years were really hard.

When DS1 went to college he was better supported, focused on subjects he enjoyed and treated more like an adult. The change was immediate. He's now doing really well at university.

We moved before DS2 went to secondary. The school he is at is absolutely amazing. They support all the kids to learn. There is a uniform but not imposed down the the nth degree. A kid in black trainers or with dyed hair isn't going to have their education disrupted for that. Genuinely disruptive behaviour is dealt with effectively.

Good luck with the move OP and do press for diagnosis. It's so useful for getting support in place.

I haven’t rtwt but this sounds exactly like my friend’s daughter (same age too). Turns out she has ADHD - now taking medication and things have turned around dramatically for her. I hope your DD gets more support at her new school

Some schools are just awful. I have a friend who has a child with ASD, the DC has meltdowns and school refusal and when the parents manage to get the child in through the front door the child gets punished for being late. This is supposed to be a school that was set up to meet their needs but the school is massively exacerbating the problem.

I hope your DD has a better experience at her new school. Also that she understands this is a fresh start and even if they are more understanding they will still have rules, and she needs to follows the rules so as to not get off on the wrong foot.

A managed move is very serious. You absolutely do not get one for lack of equipment or uniform misdemeanors. However truanting lessons is very disruptive and can be dangerous (if that's what's happening).

Most schools have a very long way to go towards accepting and adapting towards neurodiversity . However, they sadly reflect life in many (not all) workplaces. Letting students think that their ND excuses them from everyday life is doing them a misservice. I don't mean reasonable adjustments such as time outs, adaptive technology, smaller classes, and changing uniform (could go on with what SHOULD get provided but doesn't).

ALL students need to be able to interact in a safe and well behaved manner for the good of all. I mean the big stuff like not swearing at staff, not throwing equipment, not bullying others, Not wandering the corridors disturbing other lessons by shouting and banging doors. Sadly all types of young people, including those with SEND are unable to confirm to these very basic expectations.

The biggest issue for me as an ex teacher was when parents wouldn't work with the school to overcome difficulties because it was 'their condition and they can't help it.' I used to feel like saying yeah but there are five other students with significant SEN in the class of 32 whose sensory needs also need to be taken into consideration and your child is making their life very difficult.

TLDR: students with SEN can be supported to do well at school if parents are on board too, it's highly unlikely that your child is being moved for minor infractions. Also schools are shit for those with ADHD so I also have massive sympathy for your DD.

I think what happens is thy she forgets stuff gets a sanction then argues it because she feels it’s unfair

If it turns out she has ADHD or Dyslexia - for example - forgetting things is a known trait - therefore she is being punished for her disability - the school have on one hand agreed she may have a disability and therefore should treat her as if she does.

You wouldn’t punished a wheelchair users for not taking part in a 500M sprint.

I would if you need to asked them about inclusion and treatment of disabled kids - which are covered under the disability act.

I don’t know if you have looked at the ADHD support group or Dyslexia.org as there are clear guideline treating children with conditions.

As for the doubters - I believe you! Been there done that!

Define unacceptable behaviour.

That's the issue isn't it? OP is just moving her daughter to another school as an in year transfer. Her daughter's school want to make this a managed move instead with no previous warning.

The behaviour will continue at the new school unless you stop trying to be your daughters friend and defending her unacceptable behaviour. Back the school and see how quickly things change. Your daughter will thank you for it.

This brings back so many memories! I did really well academically, but was so disorganised! Always late for school, forgetting things. The school didn't know what to do. In theory, by their own rules I should have been suspended for lateness, but I wasn't actually disruptive.

Just fill in a transfer form and register her at the new school. It doesn’t need to be a managed move. If she has a new confirmed school place tell the school she is leaving, fill in the form and move her.

Sounds like they’re trying to fiddle their stats by making it look like she had to leave rather than escaped.

Be clear to them that it’s not a managed move, it’s a move due to their failure to accommodate a disability, and any attempt to creat a false record will result in a formal complaint which you will not be letting go of until it’s properly resolved via correction of records and a written apology.

They’ll back off.

What she (and you) see as her explaining is what the teachers see as back chat.

Example:

Your DD arrives at a lesson. She has lost her pencil case. She sits down, realises she does not have anything to write with, and asks her mate who sits across the classroom if she can borrow a pen.

What the teacher sees:

The teacher has put a starter in the board for the students to get on with for the first five minutes while she does the register.

-your DD is not doing the work (because she doesn't have a pen)

• your DD is calling across the classroom and disrupting others doing their work

The teacher then tells your DD off (on two counts).

Your DD is upset and responds with something like "I was just trying to borrow a pen you can't give me a consequence for borrowing a pan".

Teacher then tells off DD for backchat.

How to fix:

Give her one of the disposable pencil cases I linked to before
Ask the Senco to arrange with her teachers that each teacher has one of those disposable pencil cases for her
Teach your DD to put her hand up and ask the teacher if she can borrow a pen from a friend as she is sorry but she has forgotten hers

Ultimately, if your DD does not have uniform/equipment/etc the teachers will give her consequences (because that is the school behaviour policy). It's a good idea to try to teach your DD some polite forms of words to deal with this as I can guarantee the teachers will see her as very rude.

With respect to OP, I went to school between 93 and 98 and we all rolled our skirts up. Not to the point of flashing our pants in most cases. Parents and teachers have been telling girls for decades, we would roll it down then roll it back again.

A managed move is a last resort and would not go through on the basis of uniform issues. Take your blinkers off.

By year 8 it's unlikely it wouldn't already have been picked up.

Absolute rubbish. Anyone who knows anything about neurodiversity generally, but especially ADHD in girls, will tell you this is not unlikely at all.

Besides, in this case it has been "picked up" by someone as OP has said her DD has been referred for an assessment. You do realise that the waiting list for an ADHD assessment in some localities is 3-4 years? It is wrong to assume that a lack of formal diagnosis means no SEN.

@BibbleandSqwauk thanks for being an understanding teacher.

You have my sympathies OP. Can you speak to the new school on Monday and ask them for their take on the school's request for managed move? Maybe put your mind at rest?

Probably pointless but if the current school is insisting on it question them about their policies with regards to making adjustments for disabilities and SEN. But with so many children leaving I can understand why they be panicking.

Good luck x

Detentions and isolations are used frequently in these zero tolerance academies for low level behaviour like being forgetful and disorganised, so even very well behaved children often rack up lots.
It really isn’t a sign of significant behaviour problems that a child has had isolation or internal exclusion.
ND children in particular often can’t cope with the stress anxiety being caused - if the answer was just to tell them to be more organised and less impulsive etc then of course parents (and teachers) would just do that.

This sounds both very tough for your DD and yourself and I can sympathise. Some schools work for some kids and not for others. So it does sound like a move is the right thing to do.

However, I would also say that it is worth perhaps changing tack with how you explain these things to your DD as it sounds like you both resent the school and the teachers. The best way that I can explain this is to give an example. I have taught many, many kids like your DD and parental support has always been the key to getting things right for them. If you are both approaching the school rules (which apply to everyone) as unreasonable or not applicable to her then that is an invitation to trouble.

Yesterday I sat in my classroom and cried for 30 minutes through my lunch because two Year 8 girls bulldozed the beginning of a lesson because they didn’t want to be there. What had started as a calm, positive beginning was quickly turned into complete chaos by two students who had deliberately arrived late, refused to sit in their (negotiated with them and their parents) seating plan and then announced that they couldn’t be bothered with the lesson because they hated me and the subject to the whole class. We lost twenty minutes to getting them settled and it is the same every lesson. No amount of support/ sympathy/ help seems to make a difference.

So please don’t minimise back chat and lateness and forgetting things. We work endless hours to try to deliver good lesson, only to have the whole thing pulled out from under us by students who treat us as sub-human. They spoke to me like I was a dog and thought it was funny. Which isn’t a surprise because their parents also speak to me like that too.

So in moving schools maybe try to get your DD to think about the fact that those rules are to allow lessons and learning to proceed without interruption. they are trying to control her for the fun of it. They are trying to create a safe and calm environment for everyone.

@concernedchild then I am surprised you are so unsympathetic and that you don't know that ND (in fact all kids) are different. Just because you never got anything does not = everyone must be able to do likewise. This child clearly needs some more support and strategies in school.