Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Can school do this? - managed move

240 replies

Bonnyswannie · 22/03/2024 13:38

My dd is struggling at her very strict academy school. Whilst it works for some it does not for my dd and she has gone from well behaved to being pulled up for things like uniform and forgotten items to now what they call disrespectful behaviour
my dd worries about school a lot at home and we applied to a new school that is less strict about u forms and bags and I felt may be a better match.
my dd has a lot of negative behaviours points and a 1 day suspension since year 8 - nothing before that.
the new school has accepted and it’s all going through yet today my dd’s current school said they would speak to new school as due to her negative behaviours she would need a managed move. I called them this morning for help as dd was up worrying last night and not wanting to come and now we are being told this.
i asked for this in writing and they have said the new school could request due to the amount of negative behaviours. Can they do this?
my dd is undergoing assessment for ADHD she’s not aggressive or nasty or anything she does forget stuff and she can back chat . Some lessons she excels in and there are 3 subjects she is rarely in as Sw gets sent out for back chat about things that are missing. Not ideal but dd says they talk to her like crap and it makes her feel shit

OP posts:
Willyoujustbequiet · 23/03/2024 09:41

Seashor · 22/03/2024 14:06

No school works on a managed move unless there are huge problems. There is DEFINITELY more to this story.
Even if a child or adult had ADHD, or any other diversity there are still basic skills that parents need to teach them so they can manage school.
Why are you allowing her not to be in uniform? Why are you allowing her to forget items she needs?
Parents need to start stepping up and take responsibility for supporting their children.

It's clear you don't know the first thing about ADHD if you think it's as easy as not allowing them to forget stuff. It doesn't work like that. You can prompt and remind constantly, write notes, have planners, take stuff to school yourself etc.. but unless there is someone with them constantly an opportunity will arise somewhere during the school day for them to forget.

Dc forget where they are meant to be, which corridor to use, where their timetable is to check, where their locker is, which books to get from the locker if they happen to find it or remember the key. It's a constant struggle. Before diagnosis they had constant late marks. Since diagnosis and support is in place they are thriving.

Genuine ADHD is very real and destroys lives. You don't get high level child DLA for nothing. It's certainly not a matter of allowing them to forget which is a staggeringly naive comment.

Flamme · 23/03/2024 09:39

Sofiabella · 23/03/2024 07:49

A managed move is a last resort and would not go through on the basis of uniform issues. Take your blinkers off.

You clearly have no idea about how some academies operate. They make a massive Thing of discipline because it is so much easier than providing motivating teaching and they move to suspension, exclusion and, yes, managed moves with ludicrous speed if they perceive that a child with learning difficulties might dent their statistics. I think you may be the one with blinkers.

FluffyFanny · 23/03/2024 09:37

The school are clearly trying to support your child. Surely a 'managed move' is there to help her settle into the new school, help the new school understand her needs so they can put support in place for her etc. Would you prefer her to just rock up at the new school Monday morning and let them deal with her issues blind?

itsgettingweird · 23/03/2024 09:37

Schools are becoming so focussed on some things that they seem to forgo the teaching and learning - and I work in education.

I'm all for infirm and it being worn properly but I don't believe a student will learn less because their skirt is rolled up or blazer sleeves are rolled up (because they insist pupils wear them when it's 25° 🙄)

I've becoming even less sure of their tactics since I've seen so many pictures of our outstanding local independent school with amazing results that still offers 100% scholarships for bright academic pupils with pupils with extremely short skirts.

If these schools can excel without measuring skirt length why can't others?

With regards managed move. If a school has a place and has offered it then I'd move her. If they are accepting her place then there's no reason for the other school to dictate how the move comes about, managed moves are for moving pupils who need a fresh start elsewhere (sometimes because of risk of exclusion) where a place wouldn't or can't be offered under normal in year acceptance. If a school has a place the current school has no jurisdiction on you accepting it or taking it up.

Zyq · 23/03/2024 09:34

ASighMadeOfStone · 23/03/2024 07:22

She's undergoing assessment.

As are about 5 kids in each of my classes. By year 8 it's unlikely it wouldn't already have been picked up. Her behaviour sounds very typically teenage pushing against the rules though, I'll give you that.

Edited

OP says her daughter is in tears every single day and is unable to sleep and has meltdowns trying to get into school. Is that true of five children in each of your classes, and is it typical teenage behaviour?

The sheer intolerance of disability on this thread is so depressing.

andHelenknowsimmiserablenow · 23/03/2024 09:33

I agree with PP who said that the school are probably trying the managed move angle so that their figures don't show another pupil choosing to leave the school, especially if this is happening a lot.
I feel lucky that the school DS attends, while strict about uniform, equipment and respect also has great support with ADHD and SEN requirements. It is a fine line between making DC feel overwhelmed with too many things to remember and not wanting their forgetfulness to impact lessons.
And to be honest, when they start work, there will be consequences for forgetting and losing equipment or uniform, so this can't just be ignored.

Zyq · 23/03/2024 09:31

concernedchild · 23/03/2024 07:16

I really don't understand how you can let her act like this? Being suspended in year 8 is so serious.

I never had a detention. If she forgets things in the morning, lay them out the night before. My mum always used to make sure my bag was packed the night before school. By the end of year 7 I was doing it alone and never forgot anything.

How on earth does she forget her shoes????

Tell me you know nothing about ADHD without saying you know nothing about ADHD.

Zyq · 23/03/2024 09:29

ASighMadeOfStone · 23/03/2024 07:09

With all respect, she hasn't been suspended and effectively asked to leave for uniform breaches and forgetting things.

Hopefully her new school will be better for her, but you need to listen to whatever the people spending all day with your daughter are telling you about her. And work with them.

Good luck.

It sounds very much as if the school should have applied for an EHC needs assessment long ago, and in failing to do so it has failed OP's daughter. In those circumstances I'm not sure how much I would listen to them.

PinkJellyCat2023 · 23/03/2024 09:27

Bonnyswannie · 23/03/2024 06:56

Firstly I never said it was due to her skirt being rolled up someone said but her uniform and I responded saying she has it the uniform issues she got detentions for were the skirt being rolled up above the knee.
I can’t believe how judgemental and horrible some people can be in their responses to someone asking for help.

thankfully there are some people who understand how these things can affect children and he’s my dd was not going to some lessons because she was worried about getting into trouble.

the receiving school have confirmed this will not be a managed move and can’t understand why the school even said this.
thank you to everyone with helpful replies and thank you to everyone who reserved judgement. I’m not going to respond or justify myself to those picking holes and being judgey

This unfortunately is the sneery reality of today wokeness when you can be anonymous behind a screen. People do look down on those with additional needs like adhd but pretend they don't.

I do wonder how there is so much bullying of my disabled son in the village Cubs if the adults are so woke nowadays and Be Kind. It's a front.

Even NT struggle in strict academies. Did I hear that 44% of kids are unhappy nowadays? There must be hard core majority still that you beat ADHD out a kid. Or grind it out of them.

Suspending for a skirt is harsh. But add in missing lessons, not being coy when she is told off etc the school probably just want rid of your square peg as they are a round hole school. The sad part is that no one wants to help her more than they want rid of her. Over 40% of the prison population has AHDH I think. Shame that they was helped before they completely went off the rails.

mitogoshi · 23/03/2024 09:24

Back chatting teachers disrupts the whole class, don't minimalist this. Stick to the rules and school is fine. Backchatting and messing around ruined my DD's school experience, she's autistic and needs a quiet ordered atmosphere, she ended up being taught separately (more teaching herself) because other students misbehaved so much, their parents didn't realise that their kids backchatting the teacher was so disruptive to others either.

She did pretty well due to me teaching her rather than school!

Zyq · 23/03/2024 09:17

The Department for Education's guidance on managed moves here - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64ef773513ae1500116e30db/Suspension_and_permanent_exclusion_guidance_september_23.pdf - emphasis that managed moves can only be done on a voluntary basis and require parental consent. If there is evidence of schools pressurising parents to agree to a managed move, Ofsted must take this into account and the guidance expressly says the school is likely to be found to be inadequate as a result. I wonder if your daughter's school is aware of this?

If you have written evidence of what the school has been doing, I suggest you send it to Ofsted.

Zonder · 23/03/2024 09:17

Can you help her with some strategies to manage her ADHD? A visual list of all she needs for school in the morning? Helping her spend 2 minutes the night before getting her bag ready?
What other areas does she struggle in? Look with her strategies to help manage these difficulties.

Won't solve the current school issue but will help her develop her self management skills!

PaperDoIIs · 23/03/2024 09:15

pimplebum · 23/03/2024 09:01

I think you are underestimating how disruptive she is being the situation is worse than you think

Even if it is, OP is simply doing an in year transfer. Her current school can't insist that this now becomes a managed move simply on their say so.

Smeegall · 23/03/2024 09:14

imip · 22/03/2024 13:46

She possibly has ADHD and these strict schools are shit are making reasonable adjustments. They think that impulsivity can be controlled! Look up the managed mo e policy on your LAs website. It should be an in-year admission. The basis of a managed move is that if the new place is not successful, they will have to go back to the original school.

this link will be helpful https://childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/managed-moves/

impulsivity is not an excuse for abusive behaviour.

you can be ADHD and not abuse everybody.

managed moves are not light things, your daughter has been awful and you need to support her to make better decisions, rather than blaming the school or teachers.

Bonnyswannie · 23/03/2024 09:14

listsandbudgets · 23/03/2024 09:13

you have no idea have you? for some parents getting their child through the school gate at all is a huge achievement.. presumably you've never had to dealmwoth a panicking child lying on the floor sovbing, pulling you back as you try to get them into school... feeling absolute guilt about having sent them at all.

and then being judged and them being punished because they were wearing the wrong socks or they don't have a glue stick or the water bottle was forgotten.... walk a mile in someone else's shoes

This

OP posts:
Bonnyswannie · 23/03/2024 09:13

Zyq · 23/03/2024 09:06

A suspension is supposed to be close to the last resort, but some academy schools use ludicrously rigid discipline policies which don't take neurodiversity or learning difficulties into account, and which mean that children can escalate to suspension far too quickly for relatively minor issues.

if you leave or don’t attend a detention you get an automatic suspension. My dd left the detention as the teacher told her to get out (she was laughing at a friend, again not ok in a detention and i am not excusing this). She left the detention and went to fine the other teacher and got told off for being in the halls. She went back to the detention room to tell them this then got told to leave so she left the school site.

OP posts:
listsandbudgets · 23/03/2024 09:13

Seashor · 22/03/2024 14:06

No school works on a managed move unless there are huge problems. There is DEFINITELY more to this story.
Even if a child or adult had ADHD, or any other diversity there are still basic skills that parents need to teach them so they can manage school.
Why are you allowing her not to be in uniform? Why are you allowing her to forget items she needs?
Parents need to start stepping up and take responsibility for supporting their children.

you have no idea have you? for some parents getting their child through the school gate at all is a huge achievement.. presumably you've never had to dealmwoth a panicking child lying on the floor sovbing, pulling you back as you try to get them into school... feeling absolute guilt about having sent them at all.

and then being judged and them being punished because they were wearing the wrong socks or they don't have a glue stick or the water bottle was forgotten.... walk a mile in someone else's shoes

Bonnyswannie · 23/03/2024 09:10

Zyq · 23/03/2024 09:05

If the new school has a place then it has to admit your daughter. They are not allowed to refuse. The current school is talking rubbish, and I am frankly wondering whether they ae worrying about the fact that they may be liable for disability discrimination, given that they do not appear to have been making reasonable adjustments for or helping your daughter, and have been punishing her for the effects of disability.

I have since spoken to the new school and they were bewildered by this suggestion. Dd has not bullied, been physical, sworn or shouted at teachers. She has forgotten items, not adhered to keeping her skirt below the knee, worn mascara, worn jewellery she shouldn’t have (it’s been confiscated), challenged when she has detentions, back chat and on one occasion for a detention for looking out the window during a lesson (I kid you not).

OP posts:
Bonnyswannie · 23/03/2024 09:07

Astrabees · 23/03/2024 09:05

My old school year left school over 50 years ago, we used to roll our skirts up, wear make up and constantly forget our gym and cookery stuff, so nothing changes! No sanctions were ever imposed at what was a rather strict girls’ grammar school though just a mild telling off. We all turned out alright.

I think what really stresses DD out is the red marks on the class charts and her dad seeing that. It makes her want to try and convince them to take it off. They worked out that she was afraid of her fathers reaction and used that to make her tell on someone who was vaping, which then led to her being isolated by a group of people.
a telling off and a lecture Is fine she gets that’s anyway but phone calls to both parents and negative behaviour points and being told by teachers they give up on her is not working for DD

OP posts:
Zyq · 23/03/2024 09:07

spanieleyes · 22/03/2024 13:47

Yes, if an ongoing school has serious concerns about a child's behaviour, they can ask that the transfer is done under the managed move arrangements. So , if it doesn't work out, the child goes back to the outgoing school.

They can't insist on this if the child is leaving anyway.

Zyq · 23/03/2024 09:06

rubyslippers · 22/03/2024 13:41

What year is she in?
Is she / you minimising her behaviour?
a suspension is pretty last resort or for something serious

back chat is the bane of teachers lives - disrupts an entire class

A suspension is supposed to be close to the last resort, but some academy schools use ludicrously rigid discipline policies which don't take neurodiversity or learning difficulties into account, and which mean that children can escalate to suspension far too quickly for relatively minor issues.

Zyq · 23/03/2024 09:05

If the new school has a place then it has to admit your daughter. They are not allowed to refuse. The current school is talking rubbish, and I am frankly wondering whether they ae worrying about the fact that they may be liable for disability discrimination, given that they do not appear to have been making reasonable adjustments for or helping your daughter, and have been punishing her for the effects of disability.

Astrabees · 23/03/2024 09:05

My old school year left school over 50 years ago, we used to roll our skirts up, wear make up and constantly forget our gym and cookery stuff, so nothing changes! No sanctions were ever imposed at what was a rather strict girls’ grammar school though just a mild telling off. We all turned out alright.

Bonnyswannie · 23/03/2024 09:03

Oops sent to soon and regardless of whether she may have forgotten her calculator
my dd started to avoid lessons and skip as she saw that as the easier route than turning up and getting a sanction for forgetting something

OP posts:
Bonnyswannie · 23/03/2024 09:02

NamelessNancy · 23/03/2024 08:48

I have two ds who both have ASD and ADHD. DS2 was diagnosed by 5 but DS1 didn't get diagnosed until around the same age as OP's DD.

DS1 attended an academy with super strict rules and never did a day pass he wasn't getting told off or punished for low level infractions. Things like forgetting equipment, losing his stuff. Another common one was being late to lessons (he took long routes between classes so he could avoid corridor crushes he knew he couldn't cope with). He'd get detention, then forget the detention and get another for that. The effect on his self esteem and general happiness was huge. After diagnosis things didn't get much better even though SENCO always said the right thing. We did after that though refuse to support the school with detentions received which obviously relates to his neuro diversity. His secondary school years were really hard.

When DS1 went to college he was better supported, focused on subjects he enjoyed and treated more like an adult. The change was immediate. He's now doing really well at university.

We moved before DS2 went to secondary. The school he is at is absolutely amazing. They support all the kids to learn. There is a uniform but not imposed down the the nth degree. A kid in black trainers or with dyed hair isn't going to have their education disrupted for that. Genuinely disruptive behaviour is dealt with effectively.

Good luck with the move OP and do press for diagnosis. It's so useful for getting support in place.

Thank you, glad to hear both your sons are being supported now.
yes my dd absolutely knows she needs to stick to schokl rules but the new school will carry on with her education regardless as to whether her skirt is above or below her knee

OP posts: