Page 5 | Can school do this? - managed move

Bonnyswannie · 2024-03-22T13:38:20+00:00

My dd is struggling at her very strict academy school. Whilst it works for some it does not for my dd and she has gone from well behaved to being pulled up for things like uniform and forgotten items to now what they call disrespectful behaviour my dd worries about school a lot at home and we applied to a new school that is less strict about u forms and bags and I felt may be a better match. my dd has a lot of negative behaviours points and a 1 day suspension since year 8 - nothing before that. the new school has accepted and it’s all going through yet today my dd’s current school said they would speak to new school as due to her negative behaviours she would need a managed move. I called them this morning for help as dd was up worrying last night and not wanting to come and now we are being told this. i asked for this in writing and they have said the new school could request due to the amount of negative behaviours. Can they do this? my dd is undergoing assessment for ADHD she’s not aggressive or nasty or anything she does forget stuff and she can back chat . Some lessons she excels in and there are 3 subjects she is rarely in as Sw gets sent out for back chat about things that are missing. Not ideal but dd says they talk to her like crap and it makes her feel shit

itsgettingweird · 23/03/2024 14:08

Twiglets1 · 23/03/2024 13:09

It does sound like you are minimising her behaviour. I used to work in a school until last year (not a teacher but in a support role) and schools don't turn to managed moves for any pupils apart from those with the most persistent behaviour issues.

I would try to work with the school to find out what are the main issues and the small issues to try to help your daughter transition to the new school.

Managed lives are not just for behavioural issues.

The problem is people misunderstanding when they are used and using their misunderstanding to tell someone they are wrong.

The school does not need to use a managed move here. They want to keep their funding by suggesting it. Their DD will still be in role then when the financial year starts.

Anyone can chose to move their child to a school with space in it anytime for any reason.

Managed lives are used under fair access protocol for a variety of reasons when a child can't just move school because there aren't spaces and they can't remain in current school or are at risk of PEX.

cansu · 23/03/2024 14:06

If there is no managed move why did the school suggest it? Moving a child on in this way is not in the school's interest. If the receiving school think it isn't working they can be sent back. The school is so then vulnerable to being added to take a student in return. It all sounds very strange. It doesn't really add up probably because you are only telling half the story.

Sapphire387 · 23/03/2024 14:03

This reply has been deleted

We are taking this down as it is not in the spirit of the site.

Oh fuck off with your ableist bullshit. You clearly don't have a clue.

Sapphire387 · 23/03/2024 14:02

OP, we're going through similar with my son. We're in West London btw, and your story is uncannily familiar although I am sure these types of school exist everywhere. Sending you love - it's SO tough. Really hope your daughter settles well in her new school.

Original poster

Bonnyswannie · 23/03/2024 13:54

This reply has been deleted

We are taking this down as it is not in the spirit of the site.

My dd had a meltdown at home yes. Because she feels scared.
mum actually in shock at this response mocking a child who is worried and anxious

OP posts:

stayathomer · 23/03/2024 13:49

Sofiabella
I kind of believe it given that a lot of us have spoken at the primary school gates just how many people have been suspended since both of my kids have been there. Yes it’s probably more of a he refused to do any homework (as in I’m not doing it or something like that )as opposed to sorry sir I don’t have it but ultimately it’s not like in our day when suspension was because you hurt someone or badly damaged school property

ScierraDoll · 23/03/2024 13:48

This reply has been deleted

We are taking this down as it is not in the spirit of the site.

forgotmyusername1 · 23/03/2024 13:42

LoneFemaleTraveller · 22/03/2024 23:09

How does she forget shoes? Especially if you are driving her to school? How do you not notice she is in her socks?

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My adhd son walked through the snow in lapland from the reception to the bus to the airport with no shoes on. We only realised when we noticed he had bare feet on the bus and his shoes were in his luggage. It was minus 20

Original poster

Bonnyswannie · 23/03/2024 13:39

PaperDoIIs · 23/03/2024 13:24

Fucking worrying that so many school staff have such poor reading and comprehension skills.

THERE'S NO MANAGED MOVE!!!

The school are trying to make it one , AFTER OP already arranged an in year transfer like she is allowed to do and like thousands of parents do every year.

Thank you!

OP posts:

Isitbedtimeyet3 · 23/03/2024 13:26

Seashor · 22/03/2024 14:06

No school works on a managed move unless there are huge problems. There is DEFINITELY more to this story.
Even if a child or adult had ADHD, or any other diversity there are still basic skills that parents need to teach them so they can manage school.
Why are you allowing her not to be in uniform? Why are you allowing her to forget items she needs?
Parents need to start stepping up and take responsibility for supporting their children.

Your an idiot

PaperDoIIs · 23/03/2024 13:24

Fucking worrying that so many school staff have such poor reading and comprehension skills.

THERE'S NO MANAGED MOVE!!!

The school are trying to make it one , AFTER OP already arranged an in year transfer like she is allowed to do and like thousands of parents do every year.

Salmakia · 23/03/2024 13:18

BibbleandSqwauk · 23/03/2024 07:15

Definitely some posters on here who have no experience of ADHD or possibly teens in general. OP it sounds like the new school is more on board and it will be a good fresh start for your DD. When does she move? I would pro-activily contact the HoY and SENCO to work out strategies available from day 1. A few things that help my ds and similar kids in the school I work in are:

A spare pencil case constantly topped up by me with necessary equipment

A timetable printed on the fridge with reminders for unusual stuff like cooking equipment or lab coat or shin pads

Teachers asked to not apply "usual" sanctions for missing rulers or whatever and just loan one. ..honestly, I massively eye roll at colleagues who hand out sanctions for this crap..just loan one and let everyone get on with learning. For SEN kids, a daily diet of low level telling off is utterly demoralising.

Re uniform infringement..95% of the girls do this. They get told every morning, as teachers walk past them, in each class, at lunch. They unroll, then do it again. Ditto make up and jewellery. It's teens. There's a balance to be struck and battles to pick. If I've got a semi- school avoider, SEN child in my class engaging and learning I'm not going to upset that by whacking her in detention for a bit of thigh on show. BUT I would talk to her quietly about it if it was so high I could literally see her side arse when she sits down.

Good luck op.

Such a helpful post.A lot of the people tearing into OP could learn from this. It's a shame that MN has become so petty and nasty, it's like it's impossible for some members to scroll by instead of choosing to have a dig at a mum needing help.

If people think OP is minimising and want to fully understand the behaviour of her DD on order to give more appropriate advice they could just ask OP to provide specifics about the negative behaviour points/detentions and the suspension to understand what her DD struggles with and why the school is using this to suggest a managed move. Asking questions doesn't have to be snide and full of digs which leads me to believe a lot of the posters don't really want to know details or help OP they just want to have a go at her and her dd.

Verbena17 · 23/03/2024 13:15

I think you should post this in the SEND topic as well. There are some really helpful comments here but there might be some in the SN Chat section too.

It’s a shame that instead of your DD’s current school realising and supporting her needs, they’re just saying she needs a managed move away - they’re shifting the (in their eyes) ‘problem’ elsewhere instead of giving you the help you need.

SuperSue77 · 23/03/2024 13:12

imip · 22/03/2024 20:19

I work in secondary schools and with regard to ADHD, there is a lot of work for schools to do to actually understand needs! Problems with executive function, following instructions etc do mean that people will forget things. Adults with ADHD will also. There are many methods that school can do support this and they can be brought into the home also. Many children with adhd will also have parents with adhd and similar needs.

I digress… I see a lot of unnecessary and disproportionate sanctions for low level behaviour that increasing strict, SLANT schools impose. We are failing so many kids.

This is so refreshing to hear. My son has ADHD and so I see it in practice. So many people have this uneducated view that ADHD is an excuse for naughty behaviour - well if that’s the case why does my son behave differently on medication!!

My son is a sweet, sensitive boy who wants to learn and wants to do his best. The ADHD means he struggles to control his impulsivity and this is where the majority of his issues lie.

Luckily he is at a secondary who get this and who make reasonable adjustments and who understand that punitive measures don’t solve anything, they only make things worse and they end up writing these kids off. What a short-sighted and stupid approach to education.

I really hope your daughter gets to her new school, without the managed move, and is given the support and encourage to thrive.

Original poster

Bonnyswannie · 23/03/2024 13:11

FrippEnos · 23/03/2024 12:32

@Bonnyswannie

From what you originally posted and before posters got hung up on various things.

You applied for the new school, the old school had nothing to do about it.
They cannot say that it is a managed move as they have not organised anything.

They should send your DD's records across (although many don't).

It seems to me that the old school is trying to stir up trouble for you and your DD.

I would ask them why they are saying its a managed move when they haven't done anything towards it, and get it recorded that you believe that they are trying to cause you and your DD issues.

And as others have said keeping her on the roll at the school gets them the money.

Edited

Thank you
I asked for it all in writing yesterday, I alerted new school who said no way does it meet threshold for managed move
she’s off to new school next week

OP posts:

Twiglets1 · 23/03/2024 13:09

It does sound like you are minimising her behaviour. I used to work in a school until last year (not a teacher but in a support role) and schools don't turn to managed moves for any pupils apart from those with the most persistent behaviour issues.

I would try to work with the school to find out what are the main issues and the small issues to try to help your daughter transition to the new school.

Sofiabella · 23/03/2024 13:03

stayathomer · 23/03/2024 11:24

a suspension is pretty last resort for something serious
This sounds insane but nowadays it really doesn't seem to be, in my son's school they seem to suspend quite readily. When we were in school you rarely heard of it (I think twice and it was for serious bullying stuff and the hugest deal at the tiem, we were all shocked) but now my son tells me almost weekly of people being suspended. Not for teeny tiny things-eg they get detention if the teacher decides it for them forgetting something, but there's been suspensions for boys not doing homework a few times and not offering a note or them talking back to a teacher more than once. I know there's a line, but I think back to our school and the messing that went on (we had a lot of the 'cool' girls int he class that would talk back all the time and made a few teachers leave the room upset) and it definitely feels like suspensions are held as an alternative to detentions

Your son is lying 🤣 schools have to answer for each and every suspension and prove they're justified. Suspensions are absolutely not given for missing homework. Can't cope with the parents who believe things like this.

toomanyy · 23/03/2024 12:34

Smeegall · 23/03/2024 10:30

Apologies for grammatical mistake.

i don’t believe a school would do a managed move for the reasons stated.

i feel there has to be more to this story than being stated.

managed move is the step before exclusion from a school. I can’t believe they would go to this length over a rolled up skirt, it’s just not worth the hassle.

there’s just such a feeling of us and them on this thread. The teachers at the school, even if not always on your child’s side want the best for your child - that’s it. No teacher goes into the job for any other reason, no matter how senior they are.

I will say that I’ve been sworn at so much more recently and it’s almost become acceptable to do. Parents don’t seem to care their child has sworn at a teacher. If I’ve been sworn at, and I’m good at behaviour management, and very little consequence happens (after school detention….!) I cannot believe the OPs daughter is having a managed move for some very minor infractions. It doesn’t add up.

we are so quick to label as an undiagnosed SEN and how difficult it is for the child. In the mean time there’s a class of 29 having to wait to learn, possibly with their own needs.

If child is so great and it’s the schools fault, accept the managed move they will pass with flying colours.

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For a teacher you sure do struggle to comprehend OP’s posts.

FrippEnos · 23/03/2024 12:32

@Bonnyswannie

From what you originally posted and before posters got hung up on various things.

You applied for the new school, the old school had nothing to do about it.
They cannot say that it is a managed move as they have not organised anything.

They should send your DD's records across (although many don't).

It seems to me that the old school is trying to stir up trouble for you and your DD.

I would ask them why they are saying its a managed move when they haven't done anything towards it, and get it recorded that you believe that they are trying to cause you and your DD issues.

And as others have said keeping her on the roll at the school gets them the money.

ApathyMartha · 23/03/2024 12:23

If she’s still on roll at the old school they keep the funding. If they’ve lost that many pupils in that space of time they’re starting to realise that parents are removing their children. It also means that each individual pupil then equals a greater percentage for grades and it’s harder to hide the lower grades. Bad results mean fewer parents will place their kids there. Sod ‘em. Move your daughter. You don’t need a managed move if the other school has agreed to take her. Education shouldn’t traumatise kids.

PaperDoIIs · 23/03/2024 12:16

wellington77 · 23/03/2024 12:08

As a teacher, a managed move is not done for small reasons, so I’m sorry but your daughter’s behaviour must be worse than you think. If she’s back chatting- imagine the the impact on the teachers who are human at the end of the day but also disrupting other children’s learning. I get complaints for parents about other children’s behaviour disrupting their children’s learning, the school might not tell you about this as some children do t want to be identified, but they will need to consider them too. Managed moves involve a lot of paper work and the new school can return them after a certain number of weeks if they think it’s not working, so it’s not gone into lightly. The way you describe how your daughter says ‘ they speak to her like crap” is that just teachers just trying to hold her behaviour to account. I feel you’re making excuses for her. ADHD or not, she should be going to lessons and you need to be firm with her and support the teachers otherwise she will think she can get away with more and more. I’ve seen it happen. Teachers don’t make up stuff for nothing- neither have the energy or inclination!

As a teacher, you should brush up on your reading comprehension.

DD's school did not offer a managed move. OP applied for an in year transfer at another school, that school accepted her DD. It was only when her current school found out about the move they decided it should be a managed move and are trying to make OP accept that.

It's irrelevant if OP's DD is devil incarnate, they can't stop an in year transfer or demand it's done as a managed move.

wellington77 · 23/03/2024 12:08

As a teacher, a managed move is not done for small reasons, so I’m sorry but your daughter’s behaviour must be worse than you think. If she’s back chatting- imagine the the impact on the teachers who are human at the end of the day but also disrupting other children’s learning. I get complaints for parents about other children’s behaviour disrupting their children’s learning, the school might not tell you about this as some children do t want to be identified, but they will need to consider them too. Managed moves involve a lot of paper work and the new school can return them after a certain number of weeks if they think it’s not working, so it’s not gone into lightly. The way you describe how your daughter says ‘ they speak to her like crap” is that just teachers just trying to hold her behaviour to account. I feel you’re making excuses for her. ADHD or not, she should be going to lessons and you need to be firm with her and support the teachers otherwise she will think she can get away with more and more. I’ve seen it happen. Teachers don’t make up stuff for nothing- neither have the energy or inclination!

RhubarbGingerJam · 23/03/2024 12:07

Is this what you are doing at home? Exactly how much support are you giving your DD daily to make sure she has everything she needs?

That's a good point - we did scaffolding well into secondary school - literally years starting in primary to get routines drummed in - tick lists and verbal door checks to point they do it themselves - what they have that day.

That slowly happened around Y8-9 - they have a two week timetable as well so it took time.

WhiteLily1 · 23/03/2024 12:03

Bonnyswannie · 22/03/2024 23:08

You hit the nail on the head on both factors!
mornings are a nightmare. Sometimes we get to the school and dd has forgotten her shoes/bag etc she really does try! I try to but we remember one area and forget another

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OP I have twins in y7 - one of them sounds quite like your DD in terms of organisation. The other is a bit better but still needs a heap of support.
Me or DH have to pack bags with them every night. Everything has to be checked and double checked. Lists are up on the wall. Things are printed out as reminders, a cork board in the kitchen with exactly what is needed every day and a large time table highlighted with things like P.E and food tec.
Mornings I am with them every step going through everything in their bag, including lunch and water.
Uniform is organised by me and laid out / hung up in the same place.
And even then a few times things have been missed but it’s usually ok with this method. Takes a LOT of my input for 2 children.
They are getting better.. slowly. But I will not have them in detention / behaviour points every day. Just incredibly damaging to self esteem and can trigger a downward spiral in both the kid and the teachers attitude towards the kid.
Is this what you are doing at home? Exactly how much support are you giving your DD daily to make sure she has everything she needs?

RhubarbGingerJam · 23/03/2024 11:46

the new school have since confirmed that this is not a managed move as the behaviour is low level.

I'd go with what the new school says and ignore old school and put them behind you both as soon as possible.

I was shocked at SLT attitude towards DS - child teachers described as polite and hard working - also shocked they put huge pressure for this "difficult" child to stop for A-level with them.

Hopefully the assessment for ADHD ans new school will help have suggestions on support for her.

If behavioural issue persist as new school - then I would focus on her and her attitude till then I'd just assume bad fit with school ethos and child - and new environment and better support will hopefully see a return to old child - moving on certainly helped DS.