Can school do this? - managed move

I don’t think your child is naughty or that you are a terrible parent. You are clearly trying to do what you can for her.

What I was saying is, I understand how exhausting and monotonous it is having the same arguments everyday. Asking have you got X? Have you done Y? the child says yes then gets to school not having done either. If you can remove some of these triggers it will start your days much nicer.

I regularly look after a friend’s child that has ADHD. The parents are lovely but the child is often all over the place because of broken routines. When things are in the right place, when properly prepared and ready in advance, the child is so much more relaxed and happy. It is still easy for them to lose focus etc but it is much easier to bring them back round when everything else has gone smoothly. The less chaos around them reduces the level of chaos they feel.

Do you have any real life support?

Thing is she’s not even a naughty child, she’s a child with ADHD and lack of focus and forgetting stuff is part of it, I don’t know if she’s on medication (haven’t read the whole thread) but this was a game changer for DS. Even then he would lose stuff in school, he’s also autistic and in Y7 staff really would have to walk him back through his day to locate whatever he lost.

The biggest problem is most schools are in turmoil, they don’t have time to stand still never mind look backwards with a child. The school your DD is in would have been a nightmare for DS. These ultra strict schools can be amazing for kids but only if they fall into place and comply with what’s being asked. This is not easy for kids with any kind of neurodiversity although some would thrive on the order of it all.

I hope your DD gets on well in her new school and that it’s a better fit for her.

At this point we just have to hope you’re a troll trying to get a rise out of strangers on the internet, because the possibility that you actually evince this attitude around children and parents is a lot more damning.

Wow, way to go demonising parents. Many, many teachers do recognise the reality of neurodiversity, which is why it is so depressing when you come across someone who refuses to do so and you realise that this person is inflicting themselves and their fundamental misanthropy on children every day.

But others have come across it. The fact that you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There are schools, virtually all academies, which have ludicrously rigid discipline systems which mean that a minor offence or two spirals into an exclusion all too easily, especially if those systems do not allow concessions for disability, which again is the case far too often.

I wish your daughter all the best in her new school. I hope she settles in quickly and finds her teachers more approachable.

You have had a hard time from quite a lot of others. It hasn’t been put across kindly but there is a glimmer of truth in some of the things being said.

I am sure you are exhausted and fed up of the same conversations, the repetitive cycle of negativity etc but you have got to help her. Don’t keep nagging- do something!

Keep a timetable up and go through it the night before- don’t wait till morning when you are both rushed.
Pack PE kits the night before and leave by front door.
Lay out clothes and shoes the night before.
Check pencil case and replenish every night or have 5 and take a fresh one each day.
Don’t allow her to take jewellery to school.

You have to work with your DD too. You can’t just expect school to make allowances. If you can ensure she has the right kit, she won’t be worried about not having it and won’t feel the need to wag lessons. Remove the fuel and you won’t end up fighting the fire.

She has a new start ahead of her. Start it off on the right foot.

Ah a crass generalisation, that will help.

Equally the lengths some people will go to to blame behaviour on neurodiversity.

It goes both ways on here,

Hostile teachers? Or weak apologist parents?

Obiously not. It would be ridiculous to diagnose anyone solely by virtue of a partial description in a social media post, just as it is ridiculous to say a child is definitely not ND on the same basis.

However, in this case we know the child is going through diagnosis, and frankly CAMHS does not begin that process without having pretty strong evidence of a likely problem in their field. We also have the fact that the child was previously well behaved till she moved to a very strict secondary school that is not making reasonable adjustments, she's forgetting even basic things in a manner very strongly suggestive of attention problems, she's in tears every day, unable to sleep and/or having melt downs before even getting into school. That is simply not in any way indicative of a neurotypical child.

It's also ludicrous to say that because "many" children with ADHD don't behave in the same way, then this child can't have ADHD. In addition, many ADHD features may appear rude when they're not intended to be - it's just the result of being unable to lie. It's very frequently the child with ADHD who is not properly supported or understood who comes over as rude whether they intend it or not.

Wow - who has been excessively nasty or hostile?

I just see teachers and ex teachers telling it like it is.

While it’s true that teachers don’t get enough respect in our society, I have to say the presence of some of the nastiest, most hostile teachers in England on Mumsnet isn’t really helping matters.

I wasn't going to come back to this thread but it was still on my computer and I made the mistake of updating it.

For the love of Jesus, cansu, there are PLENTY of ADHD kids out there who are rude/defiant and who have sensory issues. OP said her child is on the ADHD pathway which means CAMHS has done initial assessments and deemed it necessary to proceed to further steps. My teen is in the same situation. Do you know how long the waiting list is for an actual ADHD assessment?

Make a guess, go on.

Months? Nah. Two and a half years. 2.5 years. For a diagnosis.

Meanwhile our kids are spiralling and people like you are unhelpfully chirping on about "tHeY doN't sOuNd ADHD..."

And the school-to-prison pipeline continues with a fuckton of undx'd people getting further into trouble.

But people like you don't care.

Because you'd rather see them PUNISHED!!!! Punishment and conformity are #1 in your book and how dare a child look out a window or be different or wear an elasticated skirt instead of a "proper" one?!

People like you don't give a shit about kids being micromanaged because any slipup has to be a kid's fault--it's easier for you to think that way rather than admit the system is breaking/broken. You don't want to put the time or brainpower in to consider any underlying cause because RULEZ ARE RULEZ.

Meanwhile I've got a daughter on the ADHD pathway (which, once again, means she is showing enough signs of ADHD to be put forward for a diagnosis, but hasn't received one because CAMHS is severely underfunded), and I am at my wit's end trying to help her fit in. I fucking cry most weeks.

And you know what? It's people like you who make it twenty times worse, sitting there in your armchair bleating about how kids who step out of line ought to be punished, no exceptions. Fuck their mental health. Fuck their neurodiversity, they're bad kids. Chuck it in the fuck-it bucket and just put 'em in jail early, right?!

I mean, we're heading that way in some schools already: https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/cages-installed-midlands-school-stop-28867469#ICID=Android_BMNewsApp_AppShare

Anyway, this is beyond depressing. Thanks to those posters who bring actual nuance to the discussion. You give me hope that my kids will find their places in this world.

Defiant kids

Hrtft but ds had a managed move but it didn't work out. Not making eye contact with teachers was 1 reason.. . An educational psychologist told his new school he had to be educated as if he was on the spectrum.. Can you ask for a similar assessment op? He know attends a college for 14 to 16 year olds.. Much better environment for him.

Not at all, my role involves working across a wide range of MATS as a panel member for IRPs and I've never ever heard of a child being suspended for "nothing." It doesn't happen.

Flamme. The child got told off for looking out if a window once, truants lessons, argues with teachers, doesn't wear the correct uniform and hangs around with other deviant kids is not really enough for her to be diagnosed as ND. Many kids with adhd are not rude, defiant and don't truant or kick up a fuss about wearing school shoes.

The lengths some people will go to to avoid saying that sometimes a child's behaviour is down to neurodiversity not naughtiness.

You know about how one academy trust operates, not every school.

A managed move means the new school can send her back to your school ifthe.move does not go well.

No, it doesn't. Check out the current guidance. If schools want to effect a temporary placement elsewhere, they have to do it via their powers to place pupils offsite.

But you have no idea that she does not. Given what OP says about her difficulties, including with coping with just getting into school, it's looking a high probability, but on any interpretation your assumption that she's just a badly behaved child isn't based in any evidence.

And none of that has any relevance to the school's wrongful action in trying to force a managed move.

I hate this obsession with uniform, I have worked in education for 22 years.
The kids this hits hardest are:
Those with families not doing a good job of looking after them
Those living in poverty(buying the uniform/cleaning it, we know there are umpteen kids living in temp accommodation for eg)
Those with disabilities that making fastening items such as ties, buttons and belts difficult
Those with sensory processing issues which make items such as ties and some fabrics unbearable and tolerating this takes up a huge amount of mental bandwidth reducing their ability to concentrate and stay calm/regulated.
Those with executive functioning difficulties who take a long time organising and keeping on top of their belongings.

And sadly there are plenty of teachers out there who don't get this and see child A who has had no majority difficulties to overcome in getting to school, in a uniform that doesn't cause discomfort, with parents who made sure they had their kit, turned out beautifully, and judging them to be 'good'.

The seeing child B, whose parents may not have the money to replace outgrown items, who finds their uniform unbearable, or who is already shaken up because there has been shouting and upset of having to put on clothes they hate the feel of, and they are feeling anxious knowing that however hard they try they will forget something and end up with a detention. And they go into school emotionally elevated, a teacher speaks to them critically and they snap back. They are then seen as 'naughty'.

So much of what happens in schools has nothing to do with learning, is done out of some daft social idea of what school 'should' look like and makes it far harder for many to do what they actually should be doing - learning.
Again, I say that as someone who has worked on education at levels from class teacher, SENCO and SLT to LA level.